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Post by Sailor on Sept 2, 2005 14:26:57 GMT -8
...and people died because of it.
Just a few observations off the cuff.
The way the laws are set up initial response evaluation and requests for aid to any disaster is supposed to come from the local government. The Mayor's office.
Critical steps were not taken. Apparently no attempt was made to get the word out to the poorer communities in the city, not so much as a cop car with a bullhorn or copter with a bullhorn prior to the storm for warning residents to evacuate or to tell them where to go for shelter. Many of those people didn't even have a working TV or radio.
In one overhead photo of a school district parking lot I counted over 200 55 passenger school buses. Even loaded with only 30 passengers each - you can do the math. After the levees broke it was hours before the water became too deep to operate these high riding things, they could have been used to evacuate neighborhoods or to move refugees from the city to Houston or other cities. Those 200+ buses are still in that lot, most sitting in water up to their windows or higher - destroyed.
The LA National Guard answers to the Governor. She has the authority to call them out, does not need Pentagon approval. As the power of the approaching storm became apparent why didn't she order a precautionary call-up to get equipment ready to move if needed?
Most critical fuck up? Not using their own constitutional authority to get aid moving. Apparently (my opinion) when Bush declared a state of emergency prior to storm landfall they decided to let all the responsibility fall on the Feds.
The Left has done it's work too well, even state governors are now trained to depend on the Federal Government from whom all blessings (and aid) supposedly flows.
More later, maybe.
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Post by Husky23 on Sept 2, 2005 14:44:56 GMT -8
I'd also like to research where those supposed state "funds" went last fiscal year to do some upgrades to the levee's. My gut says 'entitlment' programs; welfare and the lot.
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Post by Sailor on Sept 2, 2005 14:58:41 GMT -8
No doubt. The New Orleans municipal government is reknown as one of the most corrupt in the nation, nearly rivaling the old "Boss Daley" regime in Chicago.
The lefties are trying to make hay with the bit about the Army Corps of Engineers request for funds for levee repairs or building being cut last year, blaming it on Bush. As we all know the purse strings are controlled by the Congress, not the president.
Also, work like the Corps was seeking funds for takes several years to complete. Last years funding would have made no difference.
Also, those levees were not designed to take a Category 4 or 5 storm surge. That they held as long as they did is IMO remarkable.
Take care buddy.
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Post by 101ABN on Sept 2, 2005 17:42:27 GMT -8
The LA National Guard answers to the Governor. She has the authority to call them out, does not need Pentagon approval. As the power of the approaching storm became apparent why didn't she order a precautionary call-up to get equipment ready to move if needed?
Most critical fuck up? Not using their own constitutional authority to get aid moving. Apparently (my opinion) when Bush declared a state of emergency prior to storm landfall they decided to let all the responsibility fall on the Feds.
Speaking of constitutional authority, it was the governor's responsibility to assess the situation. When it became clear that the job was bigger than the local resources, should have immediately requested the President to send Federal troops to assist.
Armed infantry from the 82nd or 101st could have maintained order simply by their presence.
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Post by tits on Sept 2, 2005 21:05:28 GMT -8
You will not believe what she wrote.
hi i just talked to uncle floyd and he talked to dick and randy called him thursday night to say he and his property are ok he is about 40 miles west of new orleans, he has a boat and him and a friend took it down to try and help and found a corpse in the water with a life jacket on and went to pull it out of the water and a aligator took it right out of their hands, conditions are the worst you can imagine.
Gawds, that is unreal!
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Post by tits on Sept 2, 2005 21:09:34 GMT -8
The USANG are under the authority of the State Govenor. The real blame is that none of the three governors issued call-up orders when the President issued Federal Diaster Relieve on Saturday Aug 27.
Like I have said, it takes about 72 hours to do a rapid call-up for deployment. If those govenors had issued the decree on Saturday, troops could have been in route by Monday night or early Tuesday.
I would give everything I own if someone would give Al Sharpton a lobotomy. That racist bigot is going to start a race war sure as snot.
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Post by toejam on Sept 3, 2005 3:15:24 GMT -8
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Post by Sailor on Sept 3, 2005 15:08:47 GMT -8
Mike, that photo is the same one I used for the count in my post. 220 is just what I could see to count, 300 or more is possible. And there are the city mass transit buses, trucks and so on. A very conservative figure would be a possible 20,000 evacuated in the 24 hours prior to landfall just using the city resources, 3 times the number who took shelter in the Superdome (using the 9,000 figure.)
Dave, "The real blame is that none of the three governors issued call-up orders when the President issued Federal Diaster Relieve on Saturday Aug 27."
Why they didn't is a question I'd like to have answered. Even Barbour in Mississippi screwed the pooch on this.
"Like I have said, it takes about 72 hours to do a rapid call-up for deployment. If those govenors had issued the decree on Saturday, troops could have been in route by Monday night or early Tuesday."
You are the guy I got the information from originally Dave, and I appreciate it.
If those governors had gotten off the damn dime and acted on Saturday... while the floodwaters would have slowed the movement of the ground effort the Guard could have had Blackhawks over NOLA and every other town and village in trouble almost as soon as the storm cleared.
HARRY TRUMAN should be off the LA coast by now, Sunday dawn at the latest, she left here Thursday with more helos, supplies and I don't know what else. IWO JIMA and the other 2 gators that sailed Wednesday should have arrived there today joining BATAAN. I don't know how long before the hospital ship COMFORT arrives, that depends on how much she needed to load in Baltimore and Norfolk before heading out. I understand that there was even consideration of sending SANCTUARY over from San Diego, but that was dropped after it was pointed out that it would take her at least 2 weeks to make the trip.
Husky, if you read this - as I write this I'm watching a near fleet of Blackhawk, Jayhawk and Seahawk choppers operating over NOLA doing the SAR thing. Your buds are doing fine job, making what is probably difficult flying look easy. To increase their time on station they are tanking over Lake Ponchitrain from C-130 tankers. 10,000 airlifted out of the city center today alone.
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Post by tits on Sept 3, 2005 18:49:45 GMT -8
Our cousin Randy Guilford lives near NO and was headed to the city in his boat to see if he could help. They found a body in the water. When they reached for it, Randy claimed a big alligator snatched it out of his hand.
I heard today that Canada is sending 1000 troops.
I need to know who to contact so I can get down there to offer grief counseling. Do you have any leads?
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Post by retire05 on Sept 3, 2005 19:03:12 GMT -8
Our cousin Randy Guilford lives near NO and was headed to the city in his boat to see if he could help. They found a body in the water. When they reached for it, Randy claimed a big alligator snatched it out of his hand. I heard today that Canada is sending 1000 troops. I need to know who to contact so I can get down there to offer grief counseling. Do you have any leads? Tittus; try the Red Cross or Catholic Charities. They both have web sites and local offices in every major city in the nation. They will steer you in the right direction. Also, I don't know where you are, but the Astrodome in Houston is asking for professional volunteers. Doctors, nurses, mental health care professionals. The trauma to some of the children is horrible. They have witnessed deaths, rapes, murders, stabbing, beating and everything that children should never see. Let me know if I can get some contact numbers for you. |
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Post by 101ABN on Sept 3, 2005 20:02:52 GMT -8
Retire is right.
Either of those or the Salvation Army.
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Post by Sailor on Sept 4, 2005 7:50:39 GMT -8
Our cousin Randy Guilford lives near NO and was headed to the city in his boat to see if he could help. They found a body in the water. When they reached for it, Randy claimed a big alligator snatched it out of his hand. I heard today that Canada is sending 1000 troops. I need to know who to contact so I can get down there to offer grief counseling. Do you have any leads? Yeah, I read the note and a bunch of others as well. Also heard Secretary Chertoff's remarks this morning. Things are going to get really nasty for the rescue and recovery people as they start going through each and every building in the city including the houses where the occupants were trapped by rising flood water and died of thirst and starvation. The people doing that work are probably going to need counseling too Tittus. And there are STILL hardheaded people who refuse to leave what's left of their homes. |
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Post by Sailor on Sept 4, 2005 11:26:04 GMT -8
The way I read this is only about 1/2 the plan was used - the part about using POV's for evacuation, which is what anyone who could would do anyway. But I also read into this the authority of the Mayor of the city and Governor of the State to commandeer all those buses and every other city and state vehicle.
When the inevitable lawsuits and criminal prosecutions start those 2 should be front and center in the dock.
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Post by tits on Sept 4, 2005 11:33:26 GMT -8
I contacted a sister church in East Monroe about being posted to the south. Having worked emergency response for the 1993 Midwest floods, I know that any volunteer needs to work through an agency. One major reason is for their own safety.
I heard this afternoon of another need that fits my professional life. They need environmental scientist (I was an environmental toxicologist) to go and help with the assessments. Heck, I am retired from the US Army and may be able to volunteer through our local USACE.
In either case, I believe that I will ask my doctor after Tuesday's treatment for a written permission to participate and to get boosters on all my shots.
Thanks, I will let you know how this goes.
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Post by Merceditas on Sept 4, 2005 14:20:58 GMT -8
I contacted a sister church in East Monroe about being posted to the south. Having worked emergency response for the 1993 Midwest floods, I know that any volunteer needs to work through an agency. One major reason is for their own safety. I heard this afternoon of another need that fits my professional life. They need environmental scientist (I was an environmental toxicologist) to go and help with the assessments. Heck, I am retired from the US Army and may be able to volunteer through our local USACE. In either case, I believe that I will ask my doctor after Tuesday's treatment for a written permission to participate and to get boosters on all my shots. Thanks, I will let you know how this goes.  Good luck and if you go, stay safe!!!! |
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Good luck and if you go, stay safe!!!!