Hey James, about legal marijuana...

[CommonSense]

it's not a good idea. Suppose marijuana was made legal in the United States. The government would tax the substance to make a boatload of money. Wouldn't this expand the black market to include tax-free pot? With an expanded black market, more people will be hurt or killed through drug trafficking. The illegal marijuana trade will increase, not cease.

What about THC levels? Would there be restrictions on how high the THC levels can be? If so, would this expand the black market even more to include not only tax-free marijuana, but also more potent marijuana? Why pay standard price plus tax, minus THC, when I can get more potent, cheaper, pot from "Joe" on my corner?

[MARIO]

commonsense said:

it's not a good idea. Suppose marijuana was made legal in the United States. The government would tax the substance to make a boatload of money. Wouldn't this expand the black market to include tax-free pot? With an expanded black market, more people will be hurt or killed through drug trafficking. The illegal marijuana trade will increase, not cease.

What about THC levels? Would there be restrictions on how high the THC levels can be? If so, would this expand the black market even more to include not only tax-free marijuana, but also more potent marijuana? Why pay standard price plus tax, minus THC, when I can get more potent, cheaper, pot from "Joe" on my corner?

Yeah, I agree, Matt.

This is actually what happened with cigarettes.

Personally, if somebody wants to kill their brain-cells in their basement, I don't care. But it does have an overall effect on society. Such as when I go to Boston Market or Wendy's and have to repeat my order 10 fucking times. I guarantee you those guys on the drive-thru speakers or behind the counter are potheads.

[CommonSense]

"If marijuana was made legal and could be massively produced, the price would fall drastically. The government could put a large tax on it and pot would still be cheaper than it is now. Speaking of people dying through druck trafficking, do you know how many people die in the pot trade under the current situation? I read a story about a cop out in California who was shot and killed by a private security firm just a few weeks ago for trespassing on a private pot-growing farm. Cases like this are all too common as pot growers heavily defend their product."


The product would still be sold for less than legal pot would be. There would still be illegal pot because people will choose not to pay the tax. Believing the government will allow legal marijuana on an unlimited THC scale is unrealistic. There will be limits-there always are.

The police "trespassed" on his product? You make it sound like this dope was a law abiding citizen. Not only was he growing an illegal product, he murdered a police officer. It is NOT the fault of the police officer that this loser decided to break the law and then kill him.

"While I understand your concerns, they don't outweigh the benefits."

James, everyday I have to go to school and listen to: "Yo my nigga I gots mad blazed last night and I fucked that bitch cuz she was all types of blazed too"

I'm sure that "blazed out motha" won't be around that "blazed out bitch" nine months from now.

I see 16-18 year olds everyday who are failing in school, fighting with their parents, dropping out of classes, and destroying the SAT (their future) because they became involved with the marijuana crowd. These guys come into school high for Christ's sake.

And you want the government to make profit off of this?

[FightingFalcon]

"The product would still be sold for less than legal pot would be. There would still be illegal pot because people will choose not to pay the tax. Believing the government will allow legal marijuana on an unlimited THC scale is unrealistic. There will be limits-there always are. "

Then how do you account for the fact that there is no black market for alcohol? You realize that the government heavily taxes alcohol too, right?

"The police "trespassed" on his product? You make it sound like this dope was a law abiding citizen. Not only was he growing an illegal product, he murdered a police officer. It is NOT the fault of the police officer that this loser decided to break the law and then kill him."

Then you have to ask yourself - why did this cop have to die? To try and prevent the creation of a drug that is much safer than tobacco? The world certainly is turned upside down.....

"I'm sure that "blazed out motha" won't be around that "blazed out bitch" nine months from now."

First off Matt, your personal experiences aren't exactly a scientific study. I would bet my life on the fact that alcohol is involved in the overwhelming amount of rape cases and not marijuana. In my life I have never heard of anyone convicted of rape while under the influence of marijuana. Marijuana is a depressent - it just wouldn't make you do that. Alcohol on the other hand.....

Secondly, what business is it of yours what people do in their private lives? Are you going to bust into people's rooms while they're having sex and say that they can't because you don't want them to?

"I see 16-18 year olds everyday who are failing in school, fighting with their parents, dropping out of classes, and destroying the SAT (their future) because they became involved with the marijuana crowd. These guys come into school high for Christ's sake."

Yea and alcohol is much better. Alcoholism is a much worse disease than marijuana addiction will ever be. Marijuana leads to laziness - alcohol leads to child abuse, spousal abuse, rape, murder, theft, etc. etc. etc. Yet you say nothing about it.

"And you want the government to make profit off of this?"

I want to use (if I may) common sense. The three most dangerous drugs in America are alcohol, caffeine and tobacco. Marijuana is a very safe drug and there is no evidence to support the belief that it causes cancer. Tobacco is one of the biggest killers in America while alcohol leads to the most violent crimes in America. Only in this crazy world that we live in would the safe drugs be illegal while the dangerous ones are legal. Ask yourself - does any of this make any sense? Cause it sure as hell doesn't to me.

[CommonSense]

"Then you have to ask yourself - why did this cop have to die?"

This cop never had to die. The blame is on the man who killed him, let's not attempt to pin blame on anyone else. Nobody forced this man to break the law and murder a police officer. Let me ask you a question.

Considering your feelings on marijuana, would you condone or condemn a life sentence for this murderer? Was his murder somehow justified in your mind?

"First off Matt, your personal experiences aren't exactly a scientific study. I would bet my life on the fact that alcohol is involved in the overwhelming amount of rape cases and not marijuana."

I would contest that even more rapes and murders are commited by hard drug users who used marijuana as a gateway drug.

"Alcohol on the other hand....."

Would you support a ban on alchohol?

"Yet you say nothing about it."

This thread is on marijuana, do you want me to change the subject?

Say five people are killed in relation to marijuana. Now say twenty were killed in relation to alchohol. This would support your statistics, yes? Are you asking me to completely ignore the five because twenty is a larger number than five?

[CommonSense]

"Reaction time for motor skills, such as driving is reduced by 41% after smoking 1 joint and is reduced 63% after smoking 2 joints.

There have been over 7,000 published scientific and medical studies documenting the damage that marijuana poses. Not one study has shown marijuana to be safe.

Data has shown that people high on marijuana show the same lack of coordination on standard "drunk driver" tests as do people who have had to much to drink.

The daily use of 1 to 3 marijuana joints can produce the same lung damage and potential cancer risk as smoking five times as many cigarettes."

www.drug-statistics.com/marijuana.htm

"Long-term studies of high school students and their patterns of drug use show that very few young people use other illegal drugs without first trying marijuana"

"For example, the risk of using cocaine is much greater for those who have tried marijuana than for those who have never tried it. Using marijuana puts children and teens in contact with people who are users and sellers of other drugs. So there is more of a risk that a marijuana user will be exposed to and urged to try more drugs."

"In one study conducted in Memphis, TN, researchers found that, of 150 reckless drivers who were tested for drugs at the arrest scene, 33 percent tested positive for marijuana"

www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/Marijteens.html

[MARIO]

commonsense said:

"Reaction time for motor skills, such as driving is reduced by 41% after smoking 1 joint and is reduced 63% after smoking 2 joints.

There have been over 7,000 published scientific and medical studies documenting the damage that marijuana poses. Not one study has shown marijuana to be safe.

Data has shown that people high on marijuana show the same lack of coordination on standard "drunk driver" tests as do people who have had to much to drink.

The daily use of 1 to 3 marijuana joints can produce the same lung damage and potential cancer risk as smoking five times as many cigarettes."

www.drug-statistics.com/marijuana.htm

"Long-term studies of high school students and their patterns of drug use show that very few young people use other illegal drugs without first trying marijuana"

"For example, the risk of using cocaine is much greater for those who have tried marijuana than for those who have never tried it. Using marijuana puts children and teens in contact with people who are users and sellers of other drugs. So there is more of a risk that a marijuana user will be exposed to and urged to try more drugs."

"In one study conducted in Memphis, TN, researchers found that, of 150 reckless drivers who were tested for drugs at the arrest scene, 33 percent tested positive for marijuana"

www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/Marijteens.html

Matt, from what I've seen, I believe that smoking and alcohol are worse for one's health than is pot. That's not to say that pot isn't bad for the body over time.

A few of my friends who smoke pot occasionally are just a little dumber than they once were. Other than that, they're still functioning. Though I'm sure the pot use will catch up with them over time.

[FightingFalcon]

"This cop never had to die. The blame is on the man who killed him, let's not attempt to pin blame on anyone else. Nobody forced this man to break the law and murder a police officer. Let me ask you a question.

Considering your feelings on marijuana, would you condone or condemn a life sentence for this murderer? Was his murder somehow justified in your mind?"

Regardless of my feelings about marijuana, I do not believe in breaking the law. As much as I would like to see marijuana legal, I believe that that fight has to occur in the voting booth - not on the streets of America. Of course I support a life sentence for the murderer of the cop. I do not believe in breaking the law just to get my point across.

It just pains me to see a law enforcement agent killed so needlessly. All for what? To prevent the growth of marijuana? Even though tobacco kills tens of thousands of people per year? I consider that cop to be yet another casualty in the War on Drugs.

"I would contest that even more rapes and murders are commited by hard drug users who used marijuana as a gateway drug."

I wouldn't. I don't have the time to look up statistics right now but I'd say that alcohol is present more than all other drugs combined in violent crimes.

"Would you support a ban on alchohol?"

Of course not - people have the right to do whatever they want in the privacy of their own homes, so long as they don't harm others.

"This thread is on marijuana, do you want me to change the subject?"

You can't discuss marijuana without talking about America's hypocritical and stupid drug laws.

"Say five people are killed in relation to marijuana. Now say twenty were killed in relation to alchohol. This would support your statistics, yes? Are you asking me to completely ignore the five because twenty is a larger number than five?"

I'm saying that its highly hypocritical to say that we should outlaw the less dangerous of two drugs. Common sense would tell us that, if one drug should be illegal, it would be the more dangerous one. Unfortunately, this country has an extreme lack of common sense.

"Data has shown that people high on marijuana show the same lack of coordination on standard "drunk driver" tests as do people who have had to much to drink."

When did I ever approve of driving while high? It should be illegal just as driving under the influence of alcohol is. I'm simply talking about someone's right to smoke in their own homes.

"The daily use of 1 to 3 marijuana joints can produce the same lung damage and potential cancer risk as smoking five times as many cigarettes."

Again - there is no cancer risk posed by marijuana. That is pure propaganda. Which is probably why that information came from a drug rehab website.

As for your second website, I am not going to trust anything published by the US government. I'll try to get you some real info later on tomorrow. But anything from the US government, which still believes that marijuana can cause cancer, is just ridiculous.

www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3418#question7

^^ That is the answer to the "gateway drug" myth.

[CommonSense]

I know you do not condone driving while under the influence of marijuana. But, legalizing the drug will cause a lot more people to smoke it and drive under the influence. A lot more people would be using the drug, thus more injuries and fatalities because of it.

Would you double or triple the amount of people who drink alcohol? Of course not. Legalizing marijuana would at least double the amount of people who use it.

"That is the answer to the "gateway drug" myth."

"Working to reform marijuana laws"-your site

You call MY sources biased?!

[FightingFalcon]

Matt I don't think that the merits of one drug should be based on the merits of other drugs. I fail to see what alcohol use has to do with the fight over marijuana.

www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3418#question13

Marijuana use is not dangerous, as I have been trying to say before. Legalizing it will not double or triple the amount of people who die each year because of drugs. The below quote can be found in the link and comes from The Lancet, a European medical journal:

"The smoking of cannabis, even long-term, is not harmful to health. It would be reasonable to judge cannabis as less of a threat than alcohol or tobacco."

Basically what you are saying is that although pot isn't exactly dangerous (not at all dangerous IMHO), we should still waste billions of dollars and police resources on guarding against it? And we should let dangerous criminals out of prison early because of prison overcrowing? That's what you're saying? Just trying to figure out what you believe.

No source is completely objective over marijuana. But I would much rather believe an organization that has the common sense to see how safe marijuana is as opposed to the US government, which still believes that marijuana causes cancer.

O and btw...Happy New Years Matt

O and here is a quote from President Jimmy Carter:

""Penalties against drug use should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself. Nowhere is this more clear than in the laws against the possession of marijuana in private for personal use."

Makes perfect sense to me. Think about it..............

[CommonSense]

"I fail to see what alcohol use has to do with the fight over marijuana." -Your most recent post

"Alcoholism is a much worse disease than marijuana addiction will ever be." -Your 2nd response


"No source is completely objective over marijuana. But I would much rather believe an organization that has the common sense to see how safe marijuana is as opposed to the US government"

While I would much rather believe an organization that deals with the victims of marijuana EVERYDAY. Why do we need rehab programs if marijuana is just fine, James?

Happy New Year to you and your family, James.

PS- I have to log off now but I should be back in about an hour.

[FightingFalcon]

What I meant by my comment is that the dangers of alcohol shouldn't decide whether we legalize marijuana or not. Funny that you quoted me because while I was typing that line I was like, "He's gonna compare the two lines"

I never said marijuana is healthy for you. It destroys your lungs and makes you really stupid and lazy. But if someone wants to do it, whatever. It's not my right to tell them otherwise. But yea....I can see why someone would want to quit marijuana. Sometimes they need help because they like doing marijuana so much - although I would never say that marijuana is addicting, because it isn't. So that's why we probably have rehab centers.

We shall continue this tomorrow then. I'm going to a New Years Party now

[CommonSense]

I see where we differ on the subject.

We both agree that it is wrong to interfere with someone's right to do something as long as that something doesn't harm another person.

However, I believe that marijuana has a great potential to harm innocent people because of the effects caused on the smoker. The smoker is a lot more likely to commit crimes and harm other people than if he did not use the drug. But, I see the hole in my own argument. If society were to adopt my policy, it would make sense to ban alcohol. This is my major flaw.

Have fun at that party, and Happy New Year!

[stratagosv]

One of the things about legalizing weed is, guess what? The government won't be in control of it. Everyone will just grow it in their backyards, tax free. However, the violence would go down, pot use would still be about the same because companies would keep their anti pot policies if they know what's good for them.

[MARIO]

stratagosv said:

One of the things about legalizing weed is, guess what? The government won't be in control of it. Everyone will just grow it in their backyards, tax free. However, the violence would go down, pot use would still be about the same because companies would keep their anti pot policies if they know what's good for them.

Ever hear a quote like this: "The power to tax is the power to destroy"?

Don't be fooled, the government will be in control -- as a drug-dealer essentially.