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Post by FightingFalcon on Apr 7, 2006 18:00:07 GMT -8
Anyone else read this book by Ayn Rand? My roommate suggested it to me and I absolutely loved it. I've heard people describe it as porn for Libertarians and it definitely is  If you are a Libertarian or value the rights of the Individual over that of "Society" (e.g. Collectivism), you'll love it. I can't wait to read her other famous book, Atlas Shrugged. If you support giving up the rights of the individual to benefit the State (e.g. Chris  , you won't like this book... |
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Post by LorSpi on Apr 9, 2006 15:11:50 GMT -8
Have you seen the film version with Gary Cooper and Patricia Neal?
I read it years ago. Not quite up there with Terry Southern's Candy for intellectual musings though. ;D
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Post by FightingFalcon on Apr 9, 2006 15:47:45 GMT -8
After reading the book I'm really tempted to get the movie - I'll probably watch it some time over the summer.
A lot of people tell me that this book changes their life - to me, it's a story about stuff I have always believed in. I really enjoyed it but I have always believed strongly in Integrity so it's nothing new.
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Post by AmericanPride on Apr 10, 2006 11:38:24 GMT -8
James-- It's not "giving up" to the State; it's offering to the Nation. Massive difference.  |
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Post by sgt0311usmc on Apr 10, 2006 15:56:26 GMT -8
But Howard does neither - and, in doing so - raises the standards for all. He give more than a fish - he gives fishing lessons.
A is A
Wait till you read Atlas shrugged - Fountainhead is to HS Diploma, what Atlas shrugged is to a PhD
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Post by FightingFalcon on Apr 10, 2006 16:27:33 GMT -8
James-- It's not "giving up" to the State; it's offering to the Nation. Massive difference. First off, no human being should deny who they are. Secondly, that's fine so long as people VOLUNTEER to offer themselves to the Nation. I am doing that myself but I would never do anything that goes against my beliefs or who I am. Nor would I ever give up my individual rights to benefit Society. |
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Post by sgt0311usmc on Apr 12, 2006 0:28:10 GMT -8
The whole point is that, he DOESN'T CARE what society thinks about his work.
He takes the buildings PURPOSE from the client;
He takes the buildings DESIGN from the LOCATION & PURPOSE;
He the builds it with the most appropriate MATERIALS for it's LOCATION & PURPOSE.
Form follows function. No facades, no irrelevant anything.
He settles for nothing short of excellence. If society can't, or won't see it - TOUGH. They're free to live, and work, in second rate squalor. But NOT to ask him to compromise in giving his best. Whether you ask him to design a toolshed, or a skyscraper - he gives only his best - how can anyone find fault with that?
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Post by FightingFalcon on Apr 12, 2006 8:53:17 GMT -8
how can anyone find fault with that? You can't. Personally my favorite character in the book is still Dominique though. I really like Howard a lot but I thought Dominique was the embodiment of complete Integrity. Sgt, I just ordered Atlas Shrugged, The Virtue of Selfishness and Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal. I've got my summer reading |
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Post by sgt0311usmc on Apr 19, 2006 23:42:40 GMT -8
Atlas shrugged can seem like a combination of ... reading fountainhead - but every page twice (Long book, and she can get tedious) & a little bit "Catch 22" (you think it's going somewhere & finally about to make a point, then it - the entire story, not just the chapter-scenario will jump to a point that you thought was past, or resolved. Maybe it's just tedious writing style; maybe she's trying to make the point that: as hard as it can get to keep reading at times, THAT LIFE is even harder. If you can't do one - you don't deserve the prize.
By the way - skipping to the end - would leave you confused.
I invite you to contact me after you get through - each. By the way, 4 Sr Officers (all Colonels now - 3USAF; 1 USMC) That I've known since HS, actually welcomed me into ... a sort-of inner circle due to me casually mentioning A/S'd. You'd be amazed.
BTW - I have 2 "Howard Roarke - Architect" T-shirts. Most people wonder if I got them from working there, or from some client (a client Named Howard Roarke) - Occassionally, a stranger will walk up with a sly grin, shake my hand & ask where I got it ...
It's like ..... the "Jeep wave"
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Post by FightingFalcon on Apr 20, 2006 9:25:47 GMT -8
Haha I'll be glad to join the Ayn Rand club as soon as I finish Atlas Shrugged in about two years....
My favorite line from The Fountainhead:
"I recognize no obligations toward men except one: to respect their freedom and to take no part in a slave society." Howard Roark
I truly believe that.
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Post by sgt0311usmc on Apr 21, 2006 0:24:55 GMT -8
I'm not assuming that you were serious, but, there are a LOT of Ayn Rand/Objectivist "societies" out there; Seemed too contrary to the concept though - pretty funny - I explained that theory to a friend who'd been in one (on line) for 3 years once - good debate. I knew the debate was over when he sat there for a few minutes, then looked at me with an "OOOOHHHHHHHHHH"  ..... look on his face. You'll face many external tests, but this is inside - kinda like Tom Hank's "rosegarden with his wife" story in "Private Ryan". |
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Post by Merceditas on Apr 21, 2006 5:08:40 GMT -8
I've seen the movie, Lor..........loooooooong time ago. Gary Cooper was a great choice for that role. Ayn Rand..........imo, she falls short in her quest for the perfect solution for society. Her ideas seem to work pretty well on paper and maybe for a little while in action, but somehow man looses his sense of humanity in it all. There's a loss of compassion there in Objectivism that definitely turns me off. |
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Post by FightingFalcon on Apr 21, 2006 11:51:00 GMT -8
There's a loss of compassion there in Objectivism that definitely turns me off. To me, you don't get much more compassionate than respecting the right of each human being to pursue their individual happiness. |
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Post by sgt0311usmc on Apr 21, 2006 22:50:24 GMT -8
merceditas, I've seen the movie, Lor..........loooooooong time ago. Gary Cooper was a great choice for that role. Ayn Rand..........imo, she falls short in her quest for the perfect solution for society. Her ideas seem to work pretty well on paper and maybe for a little while in action, but somehow man looses his sense of humanity in it all. There's a loss of compassion there in Objectivism that definitely turns me off. It's pretty easy to see it that way, but ....  (Thinking) .... I guess the best example that I could come up with right here is this: According to THEM (Lib's at THC) - we (here) advocate heartlessness in pursuit of the all mighty dollar, crushing the "helpless", political power & eventually a Christian Theocratic USA .... AND, while we're at it - we hate everyone, and revel in the "misfortune of the downtrodden" (NOTE: "Misfortune - again a word that implies "luck" - instead of hard work & intelligence); On the other hand - you see more of the truth here - people (yourself included) who believe in working hard/smart for our success; no "lotto" mentality ("successful people are "lucky/fortunate" & should be forced to share that luck"); And we respect others who are similarly self-responsibility-minded. You'll see disagreement here, but it's respectful. Our contempt for the lib's at THC stems not so much from their contemptful comments (which are merely a symptom), but from their choice to support the insupportable. You'll notice here that people will tolerate differences of opinion - nut, what we don't tolerate is blatant (known) lies. Out here, "A" = "A". In liberal land, "A" can equal anything they want at any point in time & space. And, it's subject to change, if they change their mind or start some new lie. They think that we don't believe in "helping our fellow man"; quite the opposite - we believe that help is earned. We don't believe in helping a person to keep digging a hole that they're in deeper - we believe in help that ENSURES that the individual gets themselves out of the hole, stays out & improves themselves & their contribution. They believe in taking OUR money, paying themselves for THEIR effort(??), hiring an "advocate" to demand more money from us, THEN buying the guy in the hole a new necktie (for his self-esteem), AND a new shovel. As for theology, anyone here can be whatever religion that they wish - including atheist - and, as long as one doesn't try to force their beliefs on others - they're accepted. We recognize the rights of each other to bring it up, as much as we recognize the rights of each other to either: agree, respectfully disagree, or ignore the thread. And the last thing that we want (as far as I can see) is a theocracy in America. But, we WOULD like to know that the person that we elect believes in a certain sense of morals, above their own desires. They think that we hold the efforts & capabilities of women in contempt - again, it's the exact opposite. While we do restrain our language a little more than if this were an "all-boys-club" - we don't generally factor your (or Mrs R's, or anyone else's) gender into the discussion, unless it's the subject. We treat you with the same, SINGLE, level of respect that we treat anyone else with. We allow YOU, your actions & words, to determine your relationship. When we hammer on Tankey, HM, etc - it's the ride for the ticket they bought. Personally, when I come to respect someone, then I want their respect before, and above, anything else. And I know that respect is earned. None of this is intended to correct, or even convince you - that's one of the good lessons - everyone's free to get whatever they want out it. I just see this subject come up a lot. Did that sound "Preachy"? Wasn't meant to. |
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Post by FightingFalcon on Apr 22, 2006 3:06:28 GMT -8
Very nice post Sgt. I couldn't agree more if I wanted to.
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, you won't like this book...
..... look on his face.
(Thinking) .... I guess the best example that I could come up with right here is this: