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Post by Sailor on Oct 15, 2014 2:09:37 GMT -8
The Secret Casualties of Iraq’s Abandoned Chemical WeaponsThe soldiers at the blast crater sensed something was wrong. It was August 2008 near Taji, Iraq. They had just exploded a stack of old Iraqi artillery shells buried beside a murky lake. The blast, part of an effort to destroy munitions that could be used in makeshift bombs, uncovered more shells. Two technicians assigned to dispose of munitions stepped into the hole. Lake water seeped in. One of them, Specialist Andrew T. Goldman, noticed a pungent odor, something, he said, he had never smelled before. He lifted a shell. Oily paste oozed from a crack. “That doesn’t look like pond water,” said his team leader, Staff Sgt. Eric J. Duling. The specialist swabbed the shell with chemical detection paper. It turned red — indicating sulfur mustard, the chemical warfare agent designed to burn a victim’s airway, skin and eyes. All three men recall an awkward pause. Then Sergeant Duling gave an order: “Get the hell out.” Much more here: www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.html?_r=0This stuff is old, of pre-1991 manufacture, but it is still deadly. Even well past its "use by" date it will still maim and kill, and likely there are still hundreds if not thousands of chemical weapon rounds still hidden in and around the old chemical weapons facilities in territory now held by ISIS. We know that some IS troops were injured or killed while screwing around with or trying to fill chemical rounds at one of the old Iraqi facilities. This shit is the nightmare that refuses to end.
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Post by warrior1972 on Oct 15, 2014 2:40:12 GMT -8
What we were told was there....wasn't.
Seriously.
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Post by 101ABN on Oct 15, 2014 6:34:53 GMT -8
We had to open the country so we could find out what was in it.
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Post by Sailor on Oct 15, 2014 14:00:21 GMT -8
I will grant that the active chemical weapons program was ended around the time of Desert Storm. However, Saddam still had quite the stockpile in his armories even after stocks found in the field were destroyed by our Army. Those munitions had to go somewhere and we are seeing that some of them were (stupidly) dumped in the desert.
Saddam played us and played the UN inspectors, playing shell games with the inspectors if you will recall and playing at still having an active program or one he could restart at any time.
Allow me to point out that until shortly before Dubya's deadline to Saddam expired EVERY noteable intelligence agency on the planet including KGB, MI6 and our own CIA thought he had what he claimed. When he finally fessed up I didn't believe him, a proven liar and with his track record why the fuck should anyone have believed him? The lead UN inspector had lied before, there was a suspicion he was lying now to cover himself on another matter. That little matter wasn't cleared up until after the tanks began to roll. Yes, KGB changed its position stating that Russia thought Hussein was telling the truth.
There was the suspicion that Saddam also had a bio-weapon program on hold (Anthrax IIRC.)
There was no claim of an active nuclear weapon program, only plans for one to be restarted at some point in the nebulous future (Israel blew up the reactor if you would recall.) Several hundred pounds of partially enriched uranium found at the principal nuclear facility was removed to the US IIRC.
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Post by warrior1972 on Oct 15, 2014 18:07:16 GMT -8
I don't completely disagree with either of you.
Saddam played us and the U.N. for fools, to be sure.
But here's the thing...
He was caught between a rock and a hard place.
He was trying to make the west believe he didn't have any chemical weapons, and trying to act like he DID have them at the same time.
If he DID, we were going to go to war with him.
If he DIDN'T, then IRAN was going to go to war with him. (you don't really think that the Iranians had forgotten the Iran-Iraq War, did you?)
Most of the evidence we had that he had them was circumstantial, at best. The stuff that was left was probably as much a hazard to IRAQ as it was to us, but he had to do a dickdance trying not to let on too much to either side.
In the end, he convinced us that he did, when he wanted to convince us that he didn't. ...And that was his undoing.
But when we took down that damnable regime, we also took down one of the major bulwarks agaist the very assholes that we are fighting with now. Thousands of ex-Iraqi soldiers were not allowed to participate in the postwar regime, and what they are now is a direct result of that:
ISIS.
The fact is that if there is a power vacuum in the Midddle East, the crown usually goes to the baddest badass remaining, and the only thing that's guarantteed about it is that he ain't going to be anything nice. The Iranians are perfectly content to let all the factions in the region pound the shit out of each other and be left standing there to pick up the pieces.
So the upshot is that whoever we beat, we simply make the job easier for the next asshole on deck.
Compared to this, fighting a hydra would be child's play.
It's been going on since the OLD TESTAMENT, and we sure as hell aren't going to be able to make it stop.
Damned if we do, damned if we don't, IMHO....
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Post by Sailor on Oct 16, 2014 10:00:55 GMT -8
But when we took down that damnable regime, we also took down one of the major bulwarks agaist the very assholes that we are fighting with now. Thousands of ex-Iraqi soldiers were not allowed to participate in the postwar regime, and what they are now is a direct result of that:
ISIS.That's the problem with hindsight, you don't see this stuff until it's way too damned late and it's nearly always 20/20. Compared to this, fighting a hydra would be child's play.Where the hell is Hercules when you need his sorry ass?
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Post by warrior1972 on Oct 17, 2014 3:08:24 GMT -8
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