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Post by warrior1972 on Jul 6, 2015 16:34:51 GMT -8
Slavery was a big part of why the South wanted to secede
In their declarations of secession from the Union, some Southern states expressly mentioned slavery as a reason for their departure. "... an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations ..." South Carolina wrote in its declaration. The state of Mississippi aligned itself with slavery right off the top of its declaration: "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery -- the greatest material interest of the world." Georgia named slavery in the second sentence of its declaration. The sad list goes on. www.cnn.com/2015/06/24/us/confederate-flag-myths-facts/index.html
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Post by dustdevil28 on Jul 6, 2015 17:29:44 GMT -8
Slavery was a big part of why the South wanted to secede
In their declarations of secession from the Union, some Southern states expressly mentioned slavery as a reason for their departure. "... an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations ..." South Carolina wrote in its declaration. The state of Mississippi aligned itself with slavery right off the top of its declaration: "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery -- the greatest material interest of the world." Georgia named slavery in the second sentence of its declaration. The sad list goes on. www.cnn.com/2015/06/24/us/confederate-flag-myths-facts/index.html Interesting. I don't see where here or otherwise has advanced a narrative stating the Civil War was caused by any issue other then slavery. So whats the point of this? -DD |
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Post by warrior1972 on Jul 6, 2015 18:38:22 GMT -8
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Post by dustdevil28 on Jul 6, 2015 21:07:24 GMT -8
Congrats. You stated the obvious again. Slavery was the major cause of the Civil War. My question is what does this have to do with those who support the flag today? Are they racists? Are they supporters of slavery? Is there any other reason why they would support the flag? I honestly don't care about the flag much either way. I viewed it as a flag of treason growing up and didn't understand those who would still support it, but I've meet a number of people from the South since those days and hold no ill will towards them if they fly it. -DD |
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Post by warrior1972 on Jul 7, 2015 3:12:25 GMT -8
"Congrats. You stated the obvious again. Slavery was the major cause of the Civil War." Congratulations. As usual, you MISSED the "obvious", even when someone puts it in front of you.The Declarations of Secession, by the various Confederate States that drafted them, SHOW the various reasons for secession in detail, and slavery was among them; but no, it was NOT the only reason. slavery was the MAIN one, but yes, there were others.
People who wanted to turn the emphasis away from the slavery have used those other reasons as the MAIN reason for years. I know this, because I've argued AGAINST them for years. And the blatant RACISM is there for all to see, in the documents that were supposed to be designed for the purpose of stating the Confederate States' ideals. These Declarations are NOT as well known as the Declaration of Independance, the Constituion of the United States, etc. In fact, most people don't even know that they existed. But they ARE a revelation of the attitudes and opinions of the Confederate States, as written by them, under no duress. In that alone, they deserve to be read by those seeking to understand the real Confederacy, and what that flag stood for when there WAS a Confederacy, instead of the fictionalized version that people seek to romanticize today. If you want to understand what the United States stood for, read the Declaration of Independance and the Constitution. If you want to understand what the Confederacy stood for, read the Declarations of Secession. "My question is what does this have to do with those who support the flag today? Are they racists? Are they supporters of slavery? Is there any other reason why they would support the flag?" The Declarations of Secession provide some information about the original Confederacy. As for supporters of the Confederacy today, THEY chose the symbol that represents them. That was their call. Assuming they knew what the Confederacy stood for, why did they make the choice?
"I honestly don't care about the flag much either way. I viewed it as a flag of treason growing up and didn't understand those who would still support it, but I've meet a number of people from the South since those days and hold no ill will towards them if they fly it." -DD The actual question should be: Do they actually understand the symbol they have chosen?
Again, the Declarations of Secession leave little or no doubt as to what the Confederacy stood for.
And the Confederate Flag, "obviously", stands for that Confederacy.
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Post by dustdevil28 on Jul 7, 2015 17:03:18 GMT -8
Congratulations. As usual, you MISSED the "obvious", even when someone puts it in front of you.
The Declarations of Secession, by the various Confederate States that drafted them, SHOW the various reasons for secession in detail, and slavery was among them; but no, it was NOT the only reason. slavery was the MAIN one, but yes, there were others.
Okay? I'm aware of the other reasons and agree slavery was the main reason. I never argued otherwise, so I ask again, whats your point?
People who wanted to turn the emphasis away from the slavery have used those other reasons as the MAIN reason for years. I know this, because I've argued AGAINST them for years.
To your first point, no one here has argued those points, so I'm curious who your counterargument is directed at. To your second point, isn't it better to accept others will have a separate view of you, which doesn't make them racist?
And the blatant RACISM is there for all to see, in the documents that were supposed to be designed for the purpose of stating the Confederate States' ideals.
Again your making statements against an argument no one here made.
These Declarations are NOT as well known as the Declaration of Independance, the Constituion of the United States, etc. In fact, most people don't even know that they existed[/i].
I'm continually amazed and saddened every day about how little the public really knows of their history to include the DOI, Constitution, etc. Some idiots today are advocating for the destruction of the Jefferson memorial in DC and the renaming of the Washington Monument due to their ownership of slaves. They don't realize how much the country wanted to abolish slavery at the start of our existence. It was only accepted due to the south's insistence and the belief by the north slavery would die out naturally. It wouldn't die due to the good nature of the south, but rather due to the economics involved in owning a slave, having to house, feed, and care for them. in the late 1700's the economics made this cost greater then having paid labor. Sadly for African Americans, Elijah Whitney's invention of the Cotton Jin drastically scaled the economic factor back in favor of slavery and ended up strengthening it as cotton become the king export of the south.
But they ARE a revelation of the attitudes and opinions of the Confederate States, as written by them[/i], under no duress. In that alone, they deserve to be read by those seeking to understand the real Confederacy,[/b]
Okay, but what you're saying here only confirms what we already believed to be true, not anything anyone here argued against.
and what that flag stood for
The battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia? Many men, good men who never owned a slave in their life, died under that flag while defending their homes. Their association with the Confederacy and with defending the institution of slavery taints their efforts, but they were Soldiers and deserve for what they went through.
If you want to understand what the United States stood for, read the Declaration of Independance and the Constitution.
If you want to understand what the Confederacy stood for, read the Declarations of Secession.
BTDT
"My question is what does this have to do with those who support the flag today? Are they racists? Are they supporters of slavery? Is there any other reason why they would support the flag?"
The Declarations of Secession provide some information about the original Confederacy. As for supporters of the Confederacy today, THEY chose the symbol that represents them. That was their call. Assuming they knew what the Confederacy stood for, why did they make the choice?
Because they don't believe it represents it anymore. Your CNN poll showed that.
"I honestly don't care about the flag much either way. I viewed it as a flag of treason growing up and didn't understand those who would still support it, but I've meet a number of people from the South since those days and hold no ill will towards them if they fly it."
-DD[/quote]
The actual question should be: Do they actually understand the symbol they have chosen?
Again, the Declarations of Secession leave little or no doubt as to what the Confederacy stood for.
And the Confederate Flag, "obviously", stands for that Confederacy.
Can a flags meaning change over time? Having a single flag to represent the pride of the south has been something cherished by southeners for some time now. I think in their view, the original meaning is known, but they believe it has changed to represent southern pride more then slavery.
-DD
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