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Post by jaber on Aug 23, 2005 10:32:32 GMT -8
This board is going to be a tad complicated for me. Hopefully, it will improve when I can get 'activated'.
To TJ:
I agree - and it is as well to remember that bigots do exist across the entire spectrum - but if you call somebody one without proof then don't expect them to respond kindly. As for Cameron's 'Zionist' episode - three or four posts in THC as I recall - it is amazing how easy it is to push some people's buttons ;-)
My nerve is not the issue. I have three impediments [possibly four] to continuing participation - you may have noticed these on THC as well:
1 - I am a bit slow on the navigation and the keyboard - especially when I start in on a major diatribe. I will try to keep my points small but sharp.
2 - My timezone is some 10 hours away from you guys so my sharpest responses will likely come while you are still bye-byes or snoring down your neighbourhood. Hence, when you are awake [physically, that is; mentally is another matter] I am struggling to stay awake, even with my Geritol and Ging-Sen.
3 - I have business interests all around West and South Asia, and these demand my periodic travels [commonly at least once a month, but sometimes up to six weeks]. I have just returned from a 10 day stint, for example. When I am away it is not always possible to keep abreast of the board from airport computer systems.
BUT - none of these have any relevance to me keeping my nerve. On the other hand, I am also sure that cyber-sharks pinpoint and target my IP address from time to time. When I detect them circling I pull up anchor for at least 24 hours and attempt to grab a new address.
Out of what loop? If I recall correctly, 'Toejam' was something related to the effect or result of injecting noxious substances between one's toes. Hardly video game material - until GTA gets upgraded again, that is.
CAMERON: How are you doing? I think I managed to pin about five of your names on THC mainly because when you got zapped so did I. At least we seem to know the administrator's name on this board.
I was talking about the National Guard, not the bogus numbers for the Army - can they really be any more accurate than the 'effective' fighting forces in Iraq?
Last thing I saw on this was a cartoon where recruitment centres were offering a tank of petrol [gas] for each new conscript. I guess that that could become a standard form of general payment in U.S. - my people tell me that $80 is very likely by December, and $100 by this time next year.
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Post by toejam on Aug 23, 2005 10:58:51 GMT -8
Not in this context. "Toejam" is from the video game "Toejam and Earl", now in it's third incarnation on X Box or something.
It was for Strat. He came over here and his mouth proceeded to write checks his ass couldn't cash, and now he's back over on THC where all he has to say is "great post, CRW" or some obsequious bullshit like that and nobody really pays attention to him.
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Post by cameron on Aug 23, 2005 11:29:52 GMT -8
Thanks for asking Grandpa J, but personally things could be better, right now I am between jobs. Normally that has never been a problem for me, but I am a Canadian citizen. Here legally, but when I moved not too long ago I lost my papers, and it has become a real nightmare. I could have a job starting tomorrow if I could only locate my dang social security card. Sorry, I'll bet that was a rhetorical question. I got zapped after letting rip with a seriously abusive post directed to the administrator's over there. They allowed a plainly abusive post by an on-line stalker directed at another poster. Then deleted the posts on the thread defending the person being abused while leaving the clearly abusive topic post up. My post didn't last 5 min. ever since every time they figure out it's me poof. Over here no zapping, and so far no need that I've noticed. Although we do have an area called the parking lot for those who have gotten over heated, and only wish to hurl insults. The numbers of those who have enlisted can not really be fudged Grandpa J but you are correct guard enlistment is down. As for calling you a bigot, well Grandpa J I do believe I have only ever said I strongly suspect you of being one, and I do.  |
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Post by dustdevil28 on Aug 23, 2005 18:57:00 GMT -8
Actually, Jerome could be another Packer if we train him right, I think. He's just gotten into some bad habits being over at THC. Packer can't be gone much longer, anyway. It's almost time for football season to start, and he will have to give us shit about how all of our teams are going to suck compared to the Packers. I'm a GB Packer fan as well so be prepared to here from us both about the inherent superiority of the Packers ;D |
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Post by dustdevil28 on Aug 23, 2005 19:04:24 GMT -8
This board is going to be a tad complicated for me. Hopefully, it will improve when I can get 'activated'. To TJ: I agree - and it is as well to remember that bigots do exist across the entire spectrum - but if you call somebody one without proof then don't expect them to respond kindly. As for Cameron's 'Zionist' episode - three or four posts in THC as I recall - it is amazing how easy it is to push some people's buttons ;-) My nerve is not the issue. I have three impediments [possibly four] to continuing participation - you may have noticed these on THC as well: 1 - I am a bit slow on the navigation and the keyboard - especially when I start in on a major diatribe. I will try to keep my points small but sharp. 2 - My timezone is some 10 hours away from you guys so my sharpest responses will likely come while you are still bye-byes or snoring down your neighbourhood. Hence, when you are awake [physically, that is; mentally is another matter] I am struggling to stay awake, even with my Geritol and Ging-Sen. 3 - I have business interests all around West and South Asia, and these demand my periodic travels [commonly at least once a month, but sometimes up to six weeks]. I have just returned from a 10 day stint, for example. When I am away it is not always possible to keep abreast of the board from airport computer systems. BUT - none of these have any relevance to me keeping my nerve. On the other hand, I am also sure that cyber-sharks pinpoint and target my IP address from time to time. When I detect them circling I pull up anchor for at least 24 hours and attempt to grab a new address. Out of what loop? If I recall correctly, 'Toejam' was something related to the effect or result of injecting noxious substances between one's toes. Hardly video game material - until GTA gets upgraded again, that is. CAMERON: How are you doing? I think I managed to pin about five of your names on THC mainly because when you got zapped so did I. At least we seem to know the administrator's name on this board. I was talking about the National Guard, not the bogus numbers for the Army - can they really be any more accurate than the 'effective' fighting forces in Iraq? Last thing I saw on this was a cartoon where recruitment centres were offering a tank of petrol [gas] for each new conscript. I guess that that could become a standard form of general payment in U.S. - my people tell me that $80 is very likely by December, and $100 by this time next year. Jerome eh? Well hopefully you last better than strat did. I seen some of your posts over at THC but I don't think I ever responded to any of them, oh well. welcome  |
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Post by jaber on Aug 24, 2005 4:43:08 GMT -8
Hmm ... quite a number to kick off with.
MARIO: I think you should check your calculator: 1945 minus 1929 does not make 26 so I could hardly have served in WWII. Rather it befell me to spend some time in Pakistan just after the Partition, in Egypt during Suez, a very brief stop in Kenya during Mau-Mau, and Singapore during the Indonesian Confrontation. All rather unpleasant on occasions but generally very enlightening culturally. Then I was demobbed and headed for warmer climes in Africa, Iberia and Western Asia as a civilian.
CAMERON: Not at all - it was as rhetorical as you wished to make it. I am sorry to hear your troubles. Touch wood [knock, knock] so far I have only needed to use photocopy documents once to get others issued by the authorities. When you get yourself sorted this time, I strongly recommend lodging the copies with your bank.
Having lived and worked for most of my life with people having skin hues of various shades both darker and lighter than my own, as well as professing the full gamut of religions, I find little sense in bigotry.
I repeat one sentence from THC: There is a difference between Jews and Zionists. The former are people, while the latter are political extremists with a very specific agenda.
BATTLEBORN: Thanks. I also don't recall anything directly between us on THC, but somehow I get the feeling I may have to polish my dance routines over here ;-).
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Post by cameron on Aug 24, 2005 5:13:32 GMT -8
Grandpa J this a sentiment I would like to see your respond too.
Dr. John Mark Reynolds Hurrah for Israel! I don't know when it became cool in the Academy to hate Israel or hold her to a higher standard than the rest of the world, but it is. Lately, it has also been hard to be a traditional Christian and love Israel. Somehow the "fact" that Israel has a successful lobbying effort should make us dislike her. ("By golly, those Israelis keep pressing for American politicians, otherwise incorrupt, to vote their way!") Weirdest of all are the arguments where a mysterious thing called "dispensationalist" (nothing like the theological idea I know from Biola University) is blamed for an irrational support for Israel. I can think of four good reasons for a patriotic American to support Israel. I should not that my own church is very Arab and I understand very well that some government policies in Israel have been bad. Bad things have been done to Arabs at times by the government of Israel. No person should justify those actions. Still, on the whole, I would rather be an Arab citizen of Israel than an Arab citizen of any country now run by Arabs. If there is a mote in Israel's eye (and perhaps more), then there is a cedar of Lebanon in both eyes of Syria and Jordan. Nobody talks about boycotting them! Why do I think Israel is a good friend and ally? First, Israel allows voting and dissent. Can anyone name many countries that would have removed the settlers from the occupied territories? Blame Israel that they are there, but admire the republican government that got rid of them. Second, Israel allows a fairly free market to exist within a highly educated culture. Education is good. Freedom is good. Israel supports an economy with limited resources that is the envy of its neighbors. Third, Israel is a friend in the global war on terror. It does not practice terrorism (on the whole). It hates terrorism and tries to stamp it out. This is not always done perfectly, but the perfect must not be allowed to be the foe of the pretty good in war time. Four, Jewish persons have historically been the victims of periodic injustice. For Jewish persons to have a secure homeland makes sense given this history. Jewish persons have no reason to trust the West or the East to protect their right to exist. Perhaps Palestine should not have been chosen as the location of this homeland, but it was. Israel exists and is necessary. Much of the Arab world will still not officially recognize these facts. Why? We all know the answer is widespread anti-Jewish sentiment in that part of the world. Finally, for a traditional Christian there should be two concerns. Christians have not historically been friends to the Jewish community. In fact, often we have treated the Jewish community less well than the Islamic community has. We have sinned against our neighbor. Some degree of sensitivity to this fact (without useless chest beating or taking blame for sins not our own) is in order. There is a good reason for Jewish persons to be sensitive to talk of "conspiracies" or Jewish "control of the Senate." Discussion on any of these topics should always keep in mind that no group in modern times has been more sinned against than Jewish persons. Of course, this does not mean that Jewish persons or the state of Israel cannot be criticized by non-Jewish persons. To the contrary such criticism is a sign of respect. Still one should be sensitive in the language deployed and particularly sensitive to overly broad generalities that might echo anti-Semite language of the past. Christians also have more in common ethically and historically with Jewish persons than with any other group of people. This is not just the result of the origins of Christianity in Judaism, though of course that is important. It is also the result of much of Judaism and Christianity developing in shared space. Judaism may be "other" to Christians, but it is often not "totally other." One thinks of the Christian and Jewish roots to modern science, for example. There are many shared modern values that make the state of Israel a close cousin to the American republic. On the whole, one must praise Israel for her many virtues, condemn without hesitation her vices, and not press on her a double standard of rectitude not placed on other cultures. Otherwise one begins to suspect an odd obsession with "the Jews" that can be near relative to very bad views indeed. So as an American and an Orthodox Christian I say here is two cheers for Israel! Long may she be free and prosperous! |
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Post by MARIO on Aug 24, 2005 8:57:30 GMT -8
>>>MARIO: I think you should check your calculator: 1945 minus 1929 does not make 26 so I could hardly have served in WWII.<<<
-Oh ok, I just checked your bio. I had thought you told me you were in your 80's.
But I DO remember you telling me that you served during WW2. Now you say you didn't?
How do you explain this dichotomy?
Take care, Jerome (or as Cameron calls you, Grandpa J).
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Post by jaber on Aug 24, 2005 12:12:13 GMT -8
Cameron, I think 'sentiment' is the operative word through this entire piece. It 'sounds' as though the author is a rheumy-eyed old fag who intends to be first in line for the "The Meek Shall Inherit The Earth" award. The whole tenor is so obsequious it makes my skin crawl. He has the right arguments, albeit with the odd wrong fact, but there is no strength or conviction in the words.
I think I once called you an apologist - I was wrong. This entire piece illustrates how an apologist writes.
"Bad things have been done to Arabs at times by the government of Israel. No person should justify those actions."
I can just imagine the fruitcake doing a 'nawty, nawty, nawty government' emphasizing each 'nawty' with a tiny slaplet on Sharon's wrist.
Of course Sharon is standing with tears in his eyes - from the strain of trying not to roar with laughter.
Is this a skit from Little Britain?
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Post by jaber on Aug 24, 2005 12:31:16 GMT -8
MARIO: I don't recall the post but I was more likely to have said that I was alive during WWII and on the receiving end of the occasional bomb and a strafing run from the Hun - fortunately they all missed - but I was not in service. My father was, as were a few uncles, a Grandfather and some Grand Uncles.
You may be mis-remembering one post in which I said my father and I were in a war film [Angels One Five] but that was made in the early 1950's.
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Post by cameron on Aug 24, 2005 13:53:17 GMT -8
Oh come on that's lame, lets hear your thoughts on Israel then.
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Post by jaber on Aug 25, 2005 6:13:29 GMT -8
Well, why didn't you ask that? My thoughts ... well ... once upon a time ...
"Balfour Declaration 1917
November 2nd, 1917
Dear Lord Rothschild,
I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.
Yours sincerely,
Arthur James Balfour "
After many years of 'insurgencies' - both Arab and Jewish, both against each other as well as against the British - the State of Israel was ratified on May 14, 1948.
Cutting through all the other rubbish it is a documented fact that Jews in Palestine have always been in the minority but have always claimed supremacy - especially after displacing millions of Palestinians into refugee camps in neighbouring countries that STILL exist 30 and more years after the enforced Palestinian 'diaspora'.
Another group in another country - "whites" [or more correctly Afrikaaners] in South Africa - did much the same thing starting around the same time in history.
After one of the wars in which Israel occupied most of the land assigned to the Arabs under Sykes-Picot, [http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/graphics/sykespicot.jpg] the divided enclaves of Gaza and 'West Bank' resulted.
Another clear parallel with the "Bantustans" in South Africa.
The last war deprived the Palestinians of even those territories, turning them into nothing less than ghettoes and enforcing the minority rule through "settlements".
On the above points the CIA Factbook on Israel adroitly sidesteps the questions thus: "The territories occupied by Israel since the 1967 war are not included in the Israel country profile, ..." - but then U.S. doesn't "do" body counts, does it?
But then again - it does not change the facts on the ground that are clearly visible to anyone with the eyes to see and, to its credit, the CIA Factbook does attempt to maintain segregated information on the West Bank and Gaza, as well as refugee counts at the end of their pages for Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and Egypt.
Repatriating those refugees - and many others who obtained 'dual' nationality after their exodus - would once again relegate Jewish Israelis to the minority. What are the odds against that repatriation ever happening even in your lifetime?
To answer a question I am sure you want to ask - the U.S. drove a stake through the heart of South Africa but gives suck to Israel to the tune of how many billions of U.S. Taxpayer dollars every year? Hey, I don't care - its your money they are pissing away, not mine.
Israel has the right to exist - A British Gentlemen gave his word and I will abide by that.
It does not have the right to exist through force of arms and state terrorism under a double standard exalted and paid for by America.
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Post by cameron on Aug 27, 2005 11:23:18 GMT -8
Jaber the bottom line is that Israel has a right to exist, and until and unless the Arabs except the reality that Israel does exist, and is going to continue to exist, Israel has no partner with which to broker a peace agreement. Arabs where not driven from their homes, they left in anticipation of Israel being driven into the sea by her neighbors. The Arabs are not a group of innocents who were persecuted by Joooos. They continue to teach hatred and blood lust to their children. I have no sympathy for them. They strap bombs to their children to then go out, and murder children. There is no yes but for that, there is no excuse that is acceptable. The Arabs are reaping what they have sown. As for the right of return forget it, never going to happen you know it and so do I. By the way isn't Jordan with a population consisting of 85% Palestinians a Palestinian state? I watched Palestinians dancing in the streets and handing out sweets in celebration of 911. The don't deserve my sympathy and they don't have it.
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Post by jaber1 on Aug 28, 2005 9:54:33 GMT -8
Cam, it is but another matter on which we agree to disagree.
My source for the START of this mess is the genocide perpetrated by the Hebrews as documented in the Books of Numbers, Deuteronomy and especially Joshua.
What is your source?
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Post by cameron on Aug 28, 2005 10:45:47 GMT -8
My conscience is my ultimate source Jaber. I follow the light cast by my conscience and my ability to reason to the best of my capability, it is all that I can do. Are you seriously attempting to use the old testament to justify your support for those who would not only justify and resort to the murder of innocents but even celebrate it?
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