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Post by toejam on Mar 12, 2005 7:27:07 GMT -8
Cross to Be Removed From S.D. Mountaintop By Associated Press March 11, 2005, 1:39 PM EST SAN DIEGO -- A 43-foot cross is to be removed from public land after a 15-year legal battle came to an end this week when the City Council rejected a proposal to transfer the land around the cross to the National Park Service. Two local congressmen had inserted a provision in a spending bill to have the land transferred as a last-ditch effort to keep the cross on top of Mount Soledad, where it has stood in some form for 90 years. The bill was signed by President Bush, but City Attorney Michael Aguirre issued a legal opinion last week saying the donation would be for a religious purpose and therefore infringe on state law. The City Council rejected the transfer on Tuesday. "For us to transfer our cross from city ownership to federal ownership leaves us in the same constitutional position," Councilman Scott Peters said. Several churches have expressed interest in a taking the cross, including one that is within 1,000 feet of its current location, said Jim McElroy, an attorney representing Philip Paulson, who brought the lawsuit challenging the cross. He expects it to be moved within 90 days. The cross has been a point of contention since 1989 when Paulson, an atheist, sued the city, claiming its presence on city property violates separation of church and state provisions in the U.S. and state constitutions. Read more: www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-cross-dispute,0,5686175,print.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines |
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Post by 101ABN on Mar 12, 2005 9:02:53 GMT -8
Cross to Be Removed From S.D. Mountaintop By Associated Press March 11, 2005, 1:39 PM EST SAN DIEGO -- A 43-foot cross is to be removed from public land after a 15-year legal battle came to an end this week when the City Council rejected a proposal to transfer the land around the cross to the National Park Service. Two local congressmen had inserted a provision in a spending bill to have the land transferred as a last-ditch effort to keep the cross on top of Mount Soledad, where it has stood in some form for 90 years. The bill was signed by President Bush, but City Attorney Michael Aguirre issued a legal opinion last week saying the donation would be for a religious purpose and therefore infringe on state law. The City Council rejected the transfer on Tuesday. "For us to transfer our cross from city ownership to federal ownership leaves us in the same constitutional position," Councilman Scott Peters said. Several churches have expressed interest in a taking the cross, including one that is within 1,000 feet of its current location, said Jim McElroy, an attorney representing Philip Paulson, who brought the lawsuit challenging the cross. He expects it to be moved within 90 days. The cross has been a point of contention since 1989 when Paulson, an atheist, sued the city, claiming its presence on city property violates separation of church and state provisions in the U.S. and state constitutions. Read more: www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-cross-dispute,0,5686175,print.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines I knew Paulson years ago. He was an asshole then and he clearly hasn't changed. This kind of crap stirs my rebel blood. I'll guaran-fuckin-tee you they wouldn't be going after it if it was a mosque. Once again the Framers are spinning in their graves. |
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Post by ReformedLiberal on Mar 12, 2005 17:12:08 GMT -8
This really pisses me off! It is a fucking war memorial, for Christ's sake! Are they going to start removing crosses from cemetaries next?
They transferred ownership of a small section of land where the cross stands to a private veteran's goup only to have it recinded by a judge who ruled that the sole purpose of the transfer was to avoid having the cross removed. Well, no shit. But if the reason for removing it was the public land status, what is wrong with remedying the objection instead of getting rid of a peice of local history??
That isn't the only cross that has been targeted here, but there is a huge one right near where I live that marks a battle of the Mex/Amer war and does not have the hundreds of individual memorial plaques around it that Soledad has, but that one has never been targeted.
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Post by Sailor on Mar 12, 2005 17:54:38 GMT -8
Agreed guys, this is bullshit.
Steve is also correct in saying that this is not the only display endangered by "athe-asses" with Christian symbols being the first in the firing line.
I'm waiting to see if the cross up on the mountainside in Pearl City, overlooking Pearl Harbor and Punchbowl gets targeted.
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Post by ReformedLiberal on Mar 12, 2005 21:36:36 GMT -8
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Post by 101ABN on Mar 13, 2005 19:38:14 GMT -8
This really pisses me off! It is a fucking war memorial, for Christ's sake! Are they going to start removing crosses from cemetaries next? They transferred ownership of a small section of land where the cross stands to a private veteran's goup only to have it recinded by a judge who ruled that the sole purpose of the transfer was to avoid having the cross removed. Well, no shit. But if the reason for removing it was the public land status, what is wrong with remedying the objection instead of getting rid of a peice of local history?? That isn't the only cross that has been targeted here, but there is a huge one right near where I live that marks a battle of the Span/Amer war and does not have the hundreds of individual memorial plaques around it that Soledad has, but that one has never been targeted. Are you in the San Diego Area, Steven? |
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Post by americanpride on Mar 13, 2005 19:59:00 GMT -8
If this trend pursues its unnatural course toward the same object that governments have the past have travelled, the reaction will be a great reckoning and there will be a terrible bloodletting. I pray that our majestic Nation does not come to that, but if it must, I do with earnest desire hope it is in my day, so that future generations may know peace.
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Post by ReformedLiberal on Mar 15, 2005 1:44:56 GMT -8
Are you in the San Diego Area, Steven? Yep. For about 31 of the last 33 years. Just inside the northern edge of the city limits, some 20 miles from downtown, about 15 miles from the coast. |
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tliedel
Junior Member
Drive-by Poster
Posts: 44
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Post by tliedel on Mar 15, 2005 6:53:18 GMT -8
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Post by toejam on Mar 15, 2005 10:32:28 GMT -8
Way to go, Terry. Now those assholes will be coming after your cross.
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tliedel
Junior Member
Drive-by Poster
Posts: 44
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Post by tliedel on Mar 15, 2005 10:38:58 GMT -8
Way to go, Terry. Now those assholes will be coming after your cross. Ha. They can't touch it. That property is owned by the Catholic church. |
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Post by NixonsGhost on Mar 15, 2005 15:18:46 GMT -8
Yep. For about 31 of the last 33 years. Just inside the northern edge of the city limits, some 20 miles from downtown, about 15 miles from the coast. That's what it sounds like from your description! I used to have relatives there! |
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Post by ReformedLiberal on Mar 15, 2005 17:21:19 GMT -8
That's what it sounds like from your description! I used to have relatives there! Used to have relatives? Or have relatives who used to live here?  Just south of Escondido. Like I said, I'm inside the San Diego City limits, but not by much. If you were to go south out of Escondido on I-15, the cross near where I live would be the first thing you saw before you got out of town. It is up on a hill right next to the freeway, overlooking Lake Hodges. The battle it commemorates was fought in the valley where the reservior now is. The infamous Kit Carson, who died at the Alamo, fought in that battle. There is a park at the south edge of Escondido named after him that is about 4 miles from here. |
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Post by 101ABN on Mar 15, 2005 20:26:06 GMT -8
Used to have relatives? Or have relatives who used to live here? Just south of Escondido. Like I said, I'm inside the San Diego City limits, but not by much. If you were to go south out of Escondido on I-15, the cross near where I live would be the first thing you saw before you got out of town. It is up on a hill right next to the freeway, overlooking Lake Hodges. The battle it commemorates was fought in the valley where the reservior now is. The infamous Kit Carson, who died at the Alamo, fought in that battle. There is a park at the south edge of Escondido named after him that is about 4 miles from here. Davy Crockett died at the Alamo in 1836. Carson lived from 1808-68. The Mexican War battle of San Pasqual (1846) was fought in the Valley that bears the same name. There's a nice visitor center (but you knew that) just east of the Wild Animal Park on CA 78. Well worth a stop for any of you that pass through the area. www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=655www.militarymuseum.org/SanPasqual.htmlBTW, I lived in San Diego from 1982 to 2000 when we moved to the Bay Area. Regards |
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Post by ReformedLiberal on Mar 15, 2005 20:33:55 GMT -8
Ooops.  Wrong colorful character. Crockett...Carson...it could happen to anybody. Couldn't it?  |
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Wrong colorful character. Crockett...Carson...it could happen to anybody. 