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Post by Merceditas on Jun 17, 2005 7:15:00 GMT -8
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Post by 101ABN on Jun 17, 2005 21:31:45 GMT -8
New Lyrics, but it's an old tune. Indiana Jones said it best: "Nazis! I hate these guys." When you clean it up and package it so nicely, it doesn't sound all that bad. In fact, there are some things there that most of us could agree with. Of course, when you read between the lines, you can almost hear the strains of "Horst Wessel" and see swastika banners blowing gently in the evening breeze, lit by the glow of torches and the flaming piles of books. Bad actors, these guys. IMO  |
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Post by Merceditas on Jun 18, 2005 7:23:42 GMT -8
I agree 101. I've only recently heard about ITP. For some reason they've linked themselves to Distributism, which was the theory that H. Belloc and CK Chesterton had come up with as a better answer to socialism and capitalism.
The only reason why my interest has been up on this, is because there's a movement in Catholic circles to try to impliment distributism in their personal lives. I'm trying to dig into where the connections might be of these fellow Catholics to facism.
Normally I'd chalk these people off as simple nutcases, but this facism really changes my concerns.
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Post by 101ABN on Jun 18, 2005 20:09:27 GMT -8
I agree 101. I've only recently heard about ITP. For some reason they've linked themselves to Distributism, which was the theory that H. Belloc and CK Chesterton had come up with as a better answer to socialism and capitalism. The only reason why my interest has been up on this, is because there's a movement in Catholic circles to try to impliment distributism in their personal lives. I'm trying to dig into where the connections might be of these fellow Catholics to facism. Normally I'd chalk these people off as simple nutcases, but this facism really changes my concerns. Well, there are a couple of degrees of separation there. Distributism, as I understand it, isn't of itself a bad thing implemented locally. Doing business with the local merchants, banking with the credit union, supporting local industry and small business, etc. I think the Catholic connection is tied to some of the communal practices of early Christians and, to some extent the cottage industries that fueled the underground economies of Europe during the renaissance. The neo-Nazis are latching onto it as a way to develop self-sufficient racially separated communities. My guess is that they are arriving at the same place from different directions, and certainly to different ends. Regards |
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Post by ReformedLiberal on Jun 19, 2005 19:57:42 GMT -8
Yikes!
It looks to me to be a fantasy utopian idealism, mixed with poorly hidden racism, bigotry, and envy, designed to appeal mostly to malcontents, ne'er-do-wells, and opportunists. While some of the surface rhetoric appears noble, its aims and aspirations are both unworkable and hypocritical. After studying the aspirations and actual outcomes of communism and socialism, I see nothing good actually coming out of this movement were it to take hold. Most political, social, and economic revolutions in history have started with a similar mix of promises and platitudes and resulted in something worse than the systems they overthrew. The only exceptions have been those that promised little more than freedom from oppression and left the rest to be built on that foundation, with only a vague initial vision of where it would lead...
This smacks of micromanaged totalitarianism in badly stained messianic robes.
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Post by Merceditas on Jun 20, 2005 7:12:01 GMT -8
Thank you for your views, other opinions on this really help me.
The SSPX has a magazine, The Angelus, which has featured articles written by different authors on Distributism, the what, why's and how to's.
I came to the conclusion it was an impractical theory that could never really work today. It might be an answer for some third world coutries, but not if they have a dictatorship form of govt.
The idea of businessess cooperating, sharing business instead of competing might be a nice thougth, but I don't see the men involved (that I am aware of) with it actually getting past their click mentality, to make it truly work.
Some of these people have visions of the guilds being restored. I'm really shocked that they think they can have their little 'villages', impliment their theories, without end up isolating themselves from society.
Get this, a large number of the men I know who are working towards this ideal here in the place I live, I've always considered bigots, misogynists. Men who believe women need to be submissive.
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Post by ReformedLiberal on Jun 20, 2005 8:23:30 GMT -8
Get this, a large number of the men I know who are working towards this ideal here in the place I live, I've always considered bigots, misogynists. Men who believe women need to be submissive. That doesn't surprise me one bit. That's exactly what I meant when I said that It looks to me to be a fantasy utopian idealism, mixed with poorly hidden racism, bigotry, and envy, designed to appeal mostly to malcontents, ne'er-do-wells, and opportunists. There is enough room in there for fringe elements of all sorts to find something that they can work to their advantage, and that is what will send such an experiment into unintended territory with disasterous consequences. I find it mind boggling that they can, on the one hand denounce the repatriation of Jews to their ancestral homeland, and then turn right around and state "In the struggle to preserve human diversity, resettlement of races to their countries of origin will play a major role, and will directly aid the struggle to build a more peaceful world." Jews have been forcibly expelled from numerous countries for a thousand years without a place to call home, and now that they have the opportunity to return to the place where they became a nation you would think that would fit right in with "resettlement of races to their countries of origin." What's next? Blacks deported back to Africa? Whites sent to Europe? Or must they all go to the Caucassus Mountains? And the banking proposal...eliminating all debt without compensation AND bank owners must pay restitution to those harmed by borrowing money. Talk about your hypocrisy! Return to "sound money"? There isn't enough gold and silver in the world to back paper currency today. But those who have it would become instantly rich and owe nothing to anyone. This is indeed a poorly thought out fantasy which draws on elements of the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf, among others, while at the same time denouncing both. Anyone who could dream up this garbage, let alone buy into it, is either evil or stupid. |
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Post by ReformedLiberal on Jun 20, 2005 9:28:16 GMT -8
I agree with some of the basic complaints of this movement. Namely, the concentration of political and economic power into the hands of the few is not good. The direction we are heading - towards one world government - is detrimental to individual freedoms and self-determination. But the answer is not to substitute one form of absentee authoritarianism for another.
My ideal would be local autonomy with the freedom of people everywhere to choose how to live and govern themselves. What works in one place will not work everywhere. There is no "one size fits all" system ever devised, or likely to be if devised by man.
From a cultural standpoint, I see nothing wrong with adopting some foreign customs and rejecting others if done wisely. Insisting on perpetuating traditions for tradition's sake is silly, and so is doing what others are doing simply because they are doing it. Taking the best of what others have created, discovered, or practiced, has worked much better over the course of history than doing something a certain way because that's how it has always been done. And what worked under past circumstances will not always work when those circumstances change.
From a racial standpoint, I see nothing wrong with racial mixing and nothing to be gained from forced separation. In the animal kingdom as well as the human, most purebreds are susceptible to various infirmities and genetic diversity strenghthens the species. Mutts are usually healthier and more robust than the pampered, pedigreed pooches. In human terms, abiguous heritage not discernable on sight would not only produce greater genetic diversity in each specimen, but also render racism obsolete as a thought process.
Such an idea is actually in line with Biblical principles, in spite of what some would claim. And this is why I find it particularly disturbing that this "third position" philosophy is growing among Christians. The Israelites were not chosen by God because of any superiority over others. They were told that it was not because they were better than anyone else, but because everyone else thought they were better than the Israelites; and raising up the lowliest people would be a demonstration of what truly makes people great. They prospered and proliferated, not because they were superior beings, but because they followed superior principles. They were told not to mix with certain peoples because their customs and beliefs were harmful to society, not because they needed to preserve their genetic lines. And numerous outsiders of various lineages were adopted into the fold when those people adopted the ways of the Israelites, thus diversifying the Israelite genetic pool.
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Post by stratagosv on Jul 16, 2005 15:16:35 GMT -8
Without looking at the links (nor the responses) is this about the connection between neo nazis and muslim terrorists?
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Post by Merceditas on Jul 16, 2005 16:16:24 GMT -8
Without looking at the links (nor the responses) is this about the connection between neo nazis and muslim terrorists? That wasn't what my search was about, but I did run into some connections between them. |
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Post by 101ABN on Jul 16, 2005 17:04:03 GMT -8
Without looking at the links (nor the responses) is this about the connection between neo nazis and muslim terrorists? Are you familiar with any such link, Strat? I'd be curious to know what you know. |
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Post by stratagosv on Jul 16, 2005 22:47:03 GMT -8
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Post by Merceditas on Jul 17, 2005 5:58:22 GMT -8
Found this on Jihad Watch: jihadwatch.org/Aryan Nations: "Islam is our ally, and the 1500 cults all claiming to be 'Christian' are our opposition" America's homegrown terrorists, the Aryan Nations, have allied themselves with the Islamic jihadists. I don't want to link to their vile website, but here are excerpts from the statement that is on their front page now: There has been a little misunderstanding as to what our perspective is as far as an alliance with Islamic Jihadeen, and our own Phinehas Priests. There are some out there who would like to imply that we are now an Islamic Fundamentalist Organization, and this is erroneous, our Organization is not for the support of any religion, however based on the history of the Aryan Nations, the rules and conduct are based on Biblical Law, and the general views of the bulk of this organization is the acceptance of Aryan Messianic Identity, or other forms of what is called “Christian Identity” in most circles.... Further, seeing the errors of the past, we have taken this approach with alliances to Islamic adherents, because we find their standards of morality to be nearly analogous to our own, and their resolve to uproot and destroy the fallen tree of the Garden, the satanic “jew”, to also be analogous to our own desires and devotion. In this sense, Islam is our ally, and the 1500 cults all claiming to be “Christian” are our opposition, as they have chosen to worship the image [jews] of the beast [satan] as prophesied within the Holy Scriptures for the non-elect, the condemned of Yahweh, the rejects of Israel. Islam has not been dishonored as much by “jew”ish incursion, therefore Islamic Jihadeen have safeguarded the purity of the very instinct for self preservation for which we hold the most vociferous esteem. Note the disassociation from the name "Christian" and denial that they are a "Christian" group. Yet in a week, or a month, someone will mention this group to me again as an example of "Christian extremism," as if the existence of such a thing somehow justifies the Islamic jihad. This shows how increasingly divorced from reality is such moral equivalence. |
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Post by 101ABN on Jul 17, 2005 7:40:04 GMT -8
OK, Strat. I was checking to see if you were baiting me with that post. The reason is this. When I first started posting on THC a few months after 9/11, I was searching for connections between PLF fronts and the ultra-left in the US and UK. What I found was all of those connections PLUS the bonus of the connection between NeoNazis and the Pan Arabists, bound, as you said, by their mutual hatred for the Jews. When I attempted to point this out, both on the ME and Current Events board, I was largely ignored by most but vociferously attacked by by some of the ultra-left as well as the more skinheaded types. It seems there are many people on both sides of the aisle who don't realize that there is a "point of infinity" where far left and far right meet and embrace. The Jews, and particularly the state of Israel form the lynchpin for the Nazi/Com/Islamist alliance. Merc may remember some of this. This is one of the reasons I vehemently attack the thinly veiled anti-Semitism of some of the more "liberal" clowns on THC. These bastards need to be outed. As Indiana Jones said. Nazis! I hate these guys! So before you go too far down the road to the neo-nazi connection to Islamic terrorism, you may find that a left turn will take you to a shortcut. Don't believe it? Go to any "antiwar" rally organized or endorsed by ANSWER. There you'll find more Palestinian flags than any other and all the leftist, Stalinist and communist front groups playing in the same sandbox with Palestine/Israel as the CENTER of their attention. Good find, Strat. Keep digging. |
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Post by tits on Jul 17, 2005 12:15:08 GMT -8
OK, Strat. I was checking to see if you were baiting me with that post. The reason is this. When I first started posting on THC a few months after 9/11, I was searching for connections between PLF fronts and the ultra-left in the US and UK. What I found was all of those connections PLUS the bonus of the connection between NeoNazis and the Pan Arabists, bound, as you said, by their mutual hatred for the Jews. When I attempted to point this out, both on the ME and Current Events board, I was largely ignored by most but vociferously attacked by by some of the ultra-left as well as the more skinheaded types. It seems there are many people on both sides of the aisle who don't realize that there is a "point of infinity" where far left and far right meet and embrace. The Jews, and particularly the state of Israel form the lynchpin for the Nazi/Com/Islamist alliance. Merc may remember some of this. This is one of the reasons I vehemently attack the thinly veiled anti-Semitism of some of the more "liberal" clowns on THC. These bastards need to be outed. As Indiana Jones said. Nazis! I hate these guys! So before you go too far down the road to the neo-nazi connection to Islamic terrorism, you may find that a left turn will take you to a shortcut. Don't believe it? Go to any "antiwar" rally organized or endorsed by ANSWER. There you'll find more Palestinian flags than any other and all the leftist, Stalinist and communist front groups playing in the same sandbox with Palestine/Israel as the CENTER of their attention. Good find, Strat. Keep digging. THANKS ALL OF THIS IS A GREAT READ! I do not understand how the National Jewish Congress continues to support the DNC when so many of the Left support groups lump the US and Israel together as the bane of mankind. I really believe that you said it best on a different thread. The young people have been brainwashed into believing that only Conservative Americans and Zionist Jews are evil. CNN did a special report on Terrorism. It did not attempt to touch the psychology or ethics of it. It was simply a 60 minute piece to explain it. FF will not like this.... An interview with a redheaded woman our age spoke volumes. She was an IRA operative in the early 1970s and set off a bomb that killed 12 and wounded dozens of others. When asked if she had any remorse for killing civilians she replied that she did not. In fact she was proud of her contribution to the IRA cause. Add this comment to those being offered by highly educated Muslims concerning the "hero status" of the suicide bombers and it paints a scary picture. We are not dealing with rational people. Another IRA operative who did repent of his murders and "hundreds of illegal acts" said something that Mr. Bush and the rest have repeated many times in a slightly different twist: "I only have to be lucky once." We will not change these people with or without violence. They are a cancer and that beast even when defeated always has a way of sticking his ugly head back into our business. If we appease the Muslim zealots or Neo-Nazi kooks today, another downtrodden misguided group will apply the successful tools learned tomorrow. Who is speaking to the future? |
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