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Post by americanpride on Apr 5, 2005 18:58:27 GMT -8
I think it's dangerous to assume that capitalism will eventually translate to democracy. I personally used to believe it, but now I do not. Russia is moving away from democracy. China has shown no signs of moving towards democracy. NAZI Germany and Fascist Italy, economically capitalist and dominated by corporations, illustrate a complete contradiction to this theory.
Why do I bring this up? I bring this up to reiterate that to transform the world, we need not only to open new markets, but we need to integrate political and military policy with our economic endeavors; we need to open markets while building democracy. Engaging in trade is not enough - we need to force open the doors of democratic revolution.
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Post by FightingFalcon on Apr 5, 2005 19:40:54 GMT -8
I think it's dangerous to assume that capitalism will eventually translate to democracy. I personally used to believe it, but now I do not. Russia is moving away from democracy. China has shown no signs of moving towards democracy. NAZI Germany and Fascist Italy, economically capitalist and dominated by corporations, illustrate a complete contradiction to this theory. Why do I bring this up? I bring this up to reiterate that to transform the world, we need not only to open new markets, but we need to integrate political and military policy with our economic endeavors; we need to open markets while building democracy. Engaging in trade is not enough - we need to force open the doors of democratic revolution. The problem with your conclusion is that your premise is completely wrong. FASCIST Italy was just that - Fascist. NAZI Germany was a Socialist state. China is Communist and Russia is anything but Capitalist. I wouldn't use those countries as examples of Capitalism. |
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Post by americanpride on Apr 6, 2005 5:07:16 GMT -8
The problem with your conclusion is that your premise is completely wrong. FASCIST Italy was just that - Fascist. NAZI Germany was a Socialist state. China is Communist and Russia is anything but Capitalist. I wouldn't use those countries as examples of Capitalism. Quite the contrary, capitalism gave birth to fascist Italy and NAZI Germany - not only in the sense of the Great Depression, but who do you think funded their campaigns? (Answer: corporations). Yes, they had wage and price controls, etc, to a certain extent, but so do many of today's capitalist countries. China is economically far and away from communist; why do you think they are so successful? Russia too is a free market dominated by "oligarchial" interests. Name me one country where capitalism in itself led to democracy. Just one. |
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Post by FightingFalcon on Apr 6, 2005 8:32:29 GMT -8
Quite the contrary, capitalism gave birth to fascist Italy and NAZI Germany - not only in the sense of the Great Depression, but who do you think funded their campaigns? (Answer: corporations). Yes, they had wage and price controls, etc, to a certain extent, but so do many of today's capitalist countries. China is economically far and away from communist; why do you think they are so successful? Russia too is a free market dominated by "oligarchial" interests. Name me one country where capitalism in itself led to democracy. Just one. Actually, Fascist Italy started out as a control-market economy. Later Mussolini would relax some of the government regulation but when Italy started to lose the war he reverted back to directly managing them. NAZI Germany was in no way Capitalist. How can you possibly tell me that the Nationalist SOCIALIST Party was Capitalist? It's in their damn name. The central government of NAZI Germany also highly regulated the markets and did not give them free reign. China is far and away from being Communist? I must have missed the day when they allowed free enterprise and a fluctuating currency. Until they de-regulate their currency, they will always be Communist in my eyes. Russia is not a Capitalist state by any stretch of the imagination - they are actually quite Fascist. Any corporation that the government does not approve of it destroys, a la Yukos. Capitalism has led to democracy in EVERY European nation. The free trading of goods ALWAYS came before a declaration of human rights and a representative government. Democracy does not inevitably lead to Capitalism - it is the other way around. You can have a representative government that controls the market-place. But you cannot have an authoritative government with Capitalism in place. Capitalism is what brought the Soviet Union down. It will also destroy the current orders in Iran and PRC, which is already happening in many aspects. |
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Post by MARIO on Apr 6, 2005 21:21:41 GMT -8
I think it's dangerous to assume that capitalism will eventually translate to democracy. I personally used to believe it, but now I do not. Russia is moving away from democracy. China has shown no signs of moving towards democracy. NAZI Germany and Fascist Italy, economically capitalist and dominated by corporations, illustrate a complete contradiction to this theory. Why do I bring this up? I bring this up to reiterate that to transform the world, we need not only to open new markets, but we need to integrate political and military policy with our economic endeavors; we need to open markets while building democracy. Engaging in trade is not enough - we need to force open the doors of democratic revolution. Chris, we don't even have a fully Capitalist economy here in the US. Those countries haven't moved toward democracy because they don't have capitalist economies. Later. |
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Post by FightingFalcon on Apr 6, 2005 21:47:45 GMT -8
Chris, we don't even have a fully Capitalist economy here in the US. Those countries haven't moved toward democracy because they don't have capitalist economies. Later. "Chris, we don't even have a fully Capitalist economy here in the US." I would definitely call that an under-statement  |
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Post by Remey688 on Apr 12, 2005 10:08:07 GMT -8
The question is reversed. What the legitimate question is, is under what economic system other than capitalism may democracy flurish?
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Post by ReformedLiberal on Apr 25, 2005 7:11:18 GMT -8
Political freedom and economic freedom are two different things. One does not necessarily lead to another in every circumstance. Culture, tradition, and religion all play a part to varying degrees. In places like China where these three things all tend toward collectivism, the people are likely to chose collective politics if given the choice because it dovetails with other aspects of their lives.
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