Tokyo's China troubles

[MARIO]

Tokyo's China troubles
Peter Brookes

April 18, 2005

A long-festering Sino-Japanese rivalry is becoming increasingly apparent. If tensions between the Asian giants continue to sky-rocket, Northeast Asian peace and stability may crumble, provoking serious consequences for American interests.

Beijing has been stoking the fires of Chinese nationalism recently, precipitating one diplomatic crisis after another. In the process, it has called into question whether China remains committed to pursuing its self-proclaimed "peaceful rise."

Last month, Beijing passed a militant "anti-secession" law directed at Taiwan. The action came just before the European Union was poised to lift its arms embargo against China. Beijing's move cooled E.U.-Chinese relations precipitously, leading Brussels to postpone any final decision to end the embargo.

In its latest attempt at "peaceful development," China is hectoring Japan over everything from history books to U.N. gamesmanship, plunging relations to their lowest point since the two re-established ties in 1972.

The latest rift is over the publication of Japan's newly-revised history textbooks. China claims they gloss over Japanese abuses during the 1931-1945 occupation. Beijing believes Tokyo hasn't properly "atoned" for the war.

READ THE REST:

www.townhall.com/columnists/peterbrookes/printpb20050418.shtml

[FightingFalcon]

All of this furthers my case about an air war against PRC. They continue to believe that they are a superpower who can manipulate the countries around them. Whether its South Korea, Taiwan or Japan, PRC believes that they have the power or the authority to tell them how to govern their foreign AND domestic affairs. Excuse me, but only America has that right as the world's greatest super power.

It's time to put them back in their place. We have to remind them that we don't appreciate their clamp-down on democracy in Hong Kong, their continued aggression towards Taiwan, their drilling and exploration in Japenese territorial waters and their refusal to deter North Korea from getting WMDs.

O, and they STILL want an apology from Japan for WWII. Never mind the fact that Japan has offered about seven official apologies since 1945. The time has come to re-arm Japan and use them in our war to bring PRC down a few notches. The only super power in this world is America and they must be brought to heel.

[MARIO]

FightingFalcon said:

All of this furthers my case about an air war against PRC. They continue to believe that they are a superpower who can manipulate the countries around them. Whether its South Korea, Taiwan or Japan, PRC believes that they have the power or the authority to tell them how to govern their foreign AND domestic affairs. Excuse me, but only America has that right as the world's greatest super power.

It's time to put them back in their place. We have to remind them that we don't appreciate their clamp-down on democracy in Hong Kong, their continued aggression towards Taiwan, their drilling and exploration in Japenese territorial waters and their refusal to deter North Korea from getting WMDs.

O, and they STILL want an apology from Japan for WWII. Never mind the fact that Japan has offered about seven official apologies since 1945. The time has come to re-arm Japan and use them in our war to bring PRC down a few notches. The only super power in this world is America and they must be brought to heel.

I don't think we need an air war with the Chinese right now. But it seems I was wrong and you were right. I honestly never conceived of a possible conflict with the Chinese. I didn't think they'd ever have the balls to provoke us. But events out there, as indicated by the article, are obviously pushing us toward a conflict.

We may actually put those F-22's to use after all.

[FightingFalcon]

MARIO said:

I don't think we need an air war with the Chinese right now. But it seems I was wrong and you were right. I honestly never conceived of a possible conflict with the Chinese. I didn't think they'd ever have the balls to provoke us. But events out there, as indicated by the article, are obviously pushing us toward a conflict.

We may actually put those F-22's to use after all.

The Chinese have been an annoyance ever since Truman lost China to the Communists.

I hope that they do indeed attack Taiwan so that we may respond in force.

[dustdevil28]

FightingFalcon said:

The Chinese have been an annoyance ever since Truman lost China to the Communists.

I hope that they do indeed attack Taiwan so that we may respond in force.

We should worry about spreading our forces too thin. With the so many of our resouces going to help re-build Iraq, This is a war we should hope to avoid.

Another factor to consider should be the cost of such a war in lives and cash. How much is it costing us to re-build Iraq right now? How much would a country like China cost us?

As long a China stays out of Taiwon we should not force the issue.

[FightingFalcon]

battleborn said:

We should worry about spreading our forces too thin. With the so many of our resouces going to help re-build Iraq, This is a war we should hope to avoid.

Another factor to consider should be the cost of such a war in lives and cash. How much is it costing us to re-build Iraq right now? How much would a country like China cost us?

As long a China stays out of Taiwon we should not force the issue.

Right now the USAF has, literally, nothing to do. We wouldn't be spreading our forces too thin.

Secondly, who cares about the cost if its necessary to defend America's global strategic objectives? If we lack the manpower/money to achieve our international goals, perhaps we should take steps to remedy that problem. We shouldn't try to lessen the amount of conflicts we are in to suit the amount of our troops. We should increase the amount of troops we have to meet the needs of protecting our hegemony.

[americanpride]

It goes without saying that I concur with James.

Mario, a war with China is inevitable. The instance they develop force projection capabilities and the necessary logistical depth, expect an imperialist China to project its power abroad into strategic regions of the world.

We can swiftly defeat China in a combined sea and air war to close its ports, shut down its infrastructure, and distrupt its economy. To defeat China, we do not require a land component. However, to decisively defeat China, we would require commitment of a land force to install a democratic free market republic once the dragon has been slain.

There are only two considerations that should worry us in regards to such a conflict: China's nuclear arsenal and China's heavy investment into the American economy.

[dustdevil28]

FightingFalcon said:

Right now the USAF has, literally, nothing to do. We wouldn't be spreading our forces too thin.

Secondly, who cares about the cost if its necessary to defend America's global strategic objectives? If we lack the manpower/money to achieve our international goals, perhaps we should take steps to remedy that problem. We shouldn't try to lessen the amount of conflicts we are in to suit the amount of our troops. We should increase the amount of troops we have to meet the needs of protecting our hegemony.

First, "The Air Force has nothing to do" is not a valid excuse. They can train the same as any other military branch.

Second. Are you in favor of bringing back the draft to bolster our military? I'm not completly against it, but compulsory survice would take away from the honor of serving ones country wouldn't it?

Third. You can not win any war depending solely on one branch of the military. I know, you can bomb this and that, but in the end they will still be standing and will most definitly be more anti- American.

Forth, Remember that the Chinese will not have to go far to strike the U.S. military. They have only to go to S. Korea and Japan.

Fifth. We should worry about the cost. I don't want to pay extra taxes just because America has to show it's strengh with out good reason. We're talking about a war that would have a the greatest loss of life since WW2. That is not something to be taken likly and the reason for entering and especially starting such hostilities must be iron-clad, bulletproof, etc.

[dustdevil28]

DarkLordoftheChris said:

It goes without saying that I concur with James.

Mario, a war with China is inevitable. The instance they develop force projection capabilities and the necessary logistical depth, expect an imperialist China to project its power abroad into strategic regions of the world.

We can swiftly defeat China in a combined sea and air war to close its ports, shut down its infrastructure, and distrupt its economy. To defeat China, we do not require a land component. However, to decisively defeat China, we would require commitment of a land force to install a democratic free market republic once the dragon has been slain.

There are only two considerations that should worry us in regards to such a conflict: China's nuclear arsenal and China's heavy investment into the American economy.

Why is a war with China inevidable? Wasn't it once thought that a war with Russia was Inevidable? If it is inevidable than should we not wait untill the situation dictates the easiest possible American victory? I don't believe that situation exists right now.

Chris, You mention that a land force would eventually have to enter to help set up a democracy, don't you think that this land force is likly to meet some resistance from the locals who are a little angry about the bombs we've dropped? It takes a lot of bombs to take out a million man Army so we should expect even this scenario to take about 2-3 years to even gains some semblance of stabiltiy.

After 2-3 years of that I think it's safe to say that America support for such a war would dwindle to almost nothing.

Another thing to consider is that China has the technology to put a man in Space. I know, the U.S. and U.S.S.R. did this 40 years ago, but China is still only the Third country to attain this feat. Do you believe that our Air Force will really have the mastery against such a country?

You also need to consider N. Korea's nucular arsenal.

In looking into whether war with China is a good option or not we should make sure that we aren't biting off more than we can chew in this conflict.

[FightingFalcon]

battleborn said:

First, "The Air Force has nothing to do" is not a valid excuse. They can train the same as any other military branch.

Second. Are you in favor of bringing back the draft to bolster our military? I'm not completly against it, but compulsory survice would take away from the honor of serving ones country wouldn't it?

Third. You can not win any war depending solely on one branch of the military. I know, you can bomb this and that, but in the end they will still be standing and will most definitly be more anti- American.

Forth, Remember that the Chinese will not have to go far to strike the U.S. military. They have only to go to S. Korea and Japan.

Fifth. We should worry about the cost. I don't want to pay extra taxes just because America has to show it's strengh with out good reason. We're talking about a war that would have a the greatest loss of life since WW2. That is not something to be taken likly and the reason for entering and especially starting such hostilities must be iron-clad, bulletproof, etc.

"First, "The Air Force has nothing to do" is not a valid excuse. They can train the same as any other military branch."

I'm simply saying that we've spent billions of dollars on the most expensive and sophisticated weapons of war ever made. It's time that we use them.

"Second. Are you in favor of bringing back the draft to bolster our military? I'm not completly against it, but compulsory survice would take away from the honor of serving ones country wouldn't it?"

We don't need the draft for we have the opposite problem. The services (all of them) have had to turn people away in the past few years because they aren't allowed, by law, to sign all of them up. People who want to serve are being told to go home simply because Congress mandates how many troops each branch can have. That's why the AF is turning increasingly to civilians to do certain jobs so that it can expand and still stay under Congress' mandated number. The manpower is out there - we are simply being prevented from fully utilizing it. But yes, I am 110% opposed to a draft.

"Third. You can not win any war depending solely on one branch of the military. I know, you can bomb this and that, but in the end they will still be standing and will most definitly be more anti- American."

Perhaps you don't appreciate the devistating effects that an economic war with China would have. A naval blockade against her ports combined with an effective air campaign against her cities would cut off the entire Chinese economy. I'd like to see how long they could go on without being able to export a single good. Furthermore, I don't care what they think about us. As Emperor Gaius said, Let them hate - so long as they fear.

"Forth, Remember that the Chinese will not have to go far to strike the U.S. military. They have only to go to S. Korea and Japan."

What could the world's largest army possibly do against the world's largest and most powerful Air Force? Furthermore, if it is missile attacks you fear, SDI is more than capable to take care of that.

"Fifth. We should worry about the cost. I don't want to pay extra taxes just because America has to show it's strengh with out good reason. We're talking about a war that would have a the greatest loss of life since WW2. That is not something to be taken likly and the reason for entering and especially starting such hostilities must be iron-clad, bulletproof, etc.[/quote]"

All the money for the campaign can be found in Iraq - its time to utilize one of the main reasons we went to war with that country.

[dustdevil28]

FightingFalcon said:

"First, "The Air Force has nothing to do" is not a valid excuse. They can train the same as any other military branch."

I'm simply saying that we've spent billions of dollars on the most expensive and sophisticated weapons of war ever made. It's time that we use them.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. If I take my gun to a gun range every day and I'm a great shooter, it doesn't mean that I should go into gang areas and start shooting at "gangsta's".

These weapons we've got will be great if we ever need them, and they will serve as a intimidating image to those who thing of fighting America.

"Second. Are you in favor of bringing back the draft to bolster our military? I'm not completly against it, but compulsory survice would take away from the honor of serving ones country wouldn't it?"

We don't need the draft for we have the opposite problem. The services (all of them) have had to turn people away in the past few years because they aren't allowed, by law, to sign all of them up. People who want to serve are being told to go home simply because Congress mandates how many troops each branch can have. That's why the AF is turning increasingly to civilians to do certain jobs so that it can expand and still stay under Congress' mandated number. The manpower is out there - we are simply being prevented from fully utilizing it. But yes, I am 110% opposed to a draft.

Recruiters have a quota that they have to reach each month. Usually somewhere around 2-3 people per recruiter. I've never heard of the military turning people down because the military has enough people already.

You overestimate what America's reaction would be to a war like this. I can't imagine much support and it should be expected that voluntary service would find many volunteers.

Perhaps you don't appreciate the devistating effects that an economic war with China would have. A naval blockade against her ports combined with an effective air campaign against her cities would cut off the entire Chinese economy. I'd like to see how long they could go on without being able to export a single good. Furthermore, I don't care what they think about us. As Emperor Gaius said, Let them hate - so long as they fear.

I thought it was Caligula who said "let them hate me as long as they fear me." That's another discussion I guess.

I'm a little surprised at how dismissive you are of the Chinese ability to fight such a war. I can appreciate the devistating effects, but in order to inflict any kind of change in China, the effort would require a probable draft, and years of war.

What could the world's largest army possibly do against the world's largest and most powerful Air Force? Furthermore, if it is missile attacks you fear, SDI is more than capable to take care of that.

Could N. Korea's forces not reach S. Korea? I'm not quite as confident as you that this war could be operated so easily. This is a government that can put a man into space now. Is it really unthinkable that they can put up a decent fight with our Air Force?

All the money for the campaign can be found in Iraq - its time to utilize one of the main reasons we went to war with that country.

Ya know, I always did wonder what would be so bad about taking the oil in Iraq. Should we not seek some kind of payment for our services to the Iraqi people? That wouldn't pay for a war with China though.