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Post by AmericanPride on Jan 20, 2006 12:32:53 GMT -8
CHINA DEVELOPING AIRCRAFT CARRIER BATTLE GROUP: MND
Central News Agency
2006-01-19 23:48:52
Taipei, Jan. 19 (CNA) China is developing an aircraft carrier battle group, the Ministry of National Defense (MND) said Thursday.
The ministry unveiled 20 satellite photos to back up its claim and expose China's military deployment posture.
Pointing at a satellite photo, MND spokesman Liu Chih-chien said the Vayag, an aircraft carrier China bought from Ukraine, has been under repair at a dock in Dalian, Liaoning. "Although China claimed that the Vayag will be used as a tourist attraction, the aircraft carrier would actually be used as a training ship in preparation for building up an aircraft carrier battle group," Liu said.
Once its aircraft carrier battle group takes shape, Liu said, China will be able to launch offshore attack on Taiwan's eastern part.
Liu also unveiled satellite photos showing military installations on a small outlying islet off the southern Chinese province of Guangdong, including an aircraft hangar, runways, fuel tanks, F-16 drones and an emergency room. "The photos showed that the aircraft hangar, F-16 drones, runways and a neighboring fuel depot were all destroyed while another depot and the emergency room remained intact, " Liu said, adding that the photos indicated that China troops had conducted training drills at the site to practice combat skills and tactics for attacking Taiwan. The F-16 drones and other installations were apparent simulations of Taiwan's equipment, he added.
The remaining photos featured China's missile deployments in Jiangxi's Leping and Ganzhou as well as Fujian's Yungan bases and a cruise missile base in Guangxi province.
(By Sofia Wu)
enditem
www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/china/2006/china-060119-cna01.htm
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Post by FightingFalcon on Jan 20, 2006 13:27:24 GMT -8
Well we knew it was coming but I still don't think that this poses ayn real threat to our hegemony in the Pacific. I mean come on....they bought it from Ukraine....
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Post by Sailor on Jan 21, 2006 17:12:51 GMT -8
It'll be interesting to see what they actually do with VARYAG. The ship was originally designed for nuclear power (like class lead ship ADMIRAL KUSNETZOV) but the reactors, heat exhangers and turbines were never fitted. The ship was not designed with the fuel bunkers and tanks that an oil fired ship requires.
I'm not saying it cannot be done but to say that it would require "a lot of work" is an understatement.
As I pointed out to Mario in a THC thread I don't think the PRC even needs a carrier. Taiwan lies within range of 500 or so shore based attack and fighter aircraft, plus the 1000 or 2 ballistic and cruise missiles the PRC has ranged opposite Taiwan on her side of the Strait.
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Post by MrDoublel on Jan 22, 2006 0:34:48 GMT -8
The Chinese Peoples Army Navy (their nave falls under the army's command!) can hardly put a frigate to sea longer then a few weeks can you imagine them putting a carrier to sea. On top of that, their pilots can barely fly let alone land on a carrier.
But, who knows what the future holds. I se a lot of drowned chinese pilots in the future, not to mention the repairs to the ship.
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Post by Sailor on Jan 22, 2006 13:38:09 GMT -8
The Chinese Peoples Army Navy (their nave falls under the army's command!) can hardly put a frigate to sea longer then a few weeks can you imagine them putting a carrier to sea. On top of that, their pilots can barely fly let alone land on a carrier. But, who knows what the future holds. I se a lot of drowned chinese pilots in the future, not to mention the repairs to the ship. Your comment brings to mind that hot shot pilot Wong Wey (SP) who managed to blunder into the EP-3 Elint bird while driving a MiG-21. Sarge, the PRC is building a fairly balanced fleet complete with AEGIS destroyers. With the shore based airforce they have available I don't really think they need carriers to go after Taiwan or anyone else in the immediate area. They also do not need an underway replenishment/refueling capability. The ships and subs they are buying from Russia have legs enough and more to stay at sea for weeks. Even after they have a ship it will still require months before the first airgroup is sufficiently trained to do more than just launch and land on the thing. And if the late LT Wey was any indication I wouldn't be standing in the stern gallaries below the flight deck during training. It's not unheard of for inexperienced pilots to crash into the stern below the flight deck. There's a shot in the ass for you.  |
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Post by tits on Jan 22, 2006 18:15:03 GMT -8
They want to hold the US off long enough to project their hold on Taiwan. This would be a much more realistic view than to project force; however, who would know what a full fleet of several battle groups could do in the ME.
Crypto, do you remember sailing in the Med with those nasty Soviets just within radar range? I can recall an Alpha getting pinged by one of our screening FFs back in 75.
Could this be the beginning of a new "Cold War" except that it will be for economic life rather than the hearts of minds?
Will we have the monies to conduct another “cold war” campaign?
I don’t see China as doing such a stupid thing as almost 60% of their foreign trade is to the West, What good would it do to wage a war against your biggest consumer?
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Post by AmericanPride on Jan 22, 2006 22:08:48 GMT -8
Tittus,
Directly prior to the initiation of Operation Barbarrossa on 22 JUN 1941, the volume of trade between NAZI Germany and the Soviet Union was considerable. In fact, a large portion of Germany's war essential materials were imported from the USSR.
Trade is no barrier to war.
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Post by MrDoublel on Jan 23, 2006 3:11:45 GMT -8
True Sailor. One thing people constantly talk about is numbers. How many fighters, frigates, bombers, subs the Chinese have but they never talk of the QUALITY of the people driving 'em. I could equip an Afghan battalion to our standards and they would fight bravely (no doubt about THAT) but they'd still get their asses handed to them by the average US army battalion. Chinese pilots lack the training and flight time to stand up to pilots trained to western standards. Same goes for their naval crews and their ships are not in the best condition and prone to break downs due to lack of use.
Not to mention the technological differences.
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Post by AmericanPride on Jan 23, 2006 4:32:49 GMT -8
It is obvious that their immediate objective is the conquest of the island democracy of Taiwan, and this is further indicated by the massed military assets they have "pointing" in Taiwan's direction. I do not think the development of a carrier battlegroup, however, is simply directed towards their immediate concern; rather, it is part of their long-term development plan designed to enable the PRC to project force beyond Taiwan, beyond Korea, and beyond Japan. It will certainly be some time before this comes into realization, but we will be asking where that time has gone when it happens.
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Post by Sailor on Jan 23, 2006 17:01:17 GMT -8
Crypto, do you remember sailing in the Med with those nasty Soviets just within radar range? I can recall an Alpha getting pinged by one of our screening FFs back in 75. Yup, got a few "sea stories" I could tell too along the same lines, like CARON drag racing the new cruiser SLAVA. We wupped him too, and then one of his engines blew up and he went DIW. Could be Dave. Just as likely they want the "prestige" and "face" value that goes with a strong military. I don't see their expansion going that far. Likely they'll expand to the point where they can intimidate Taiwan, Japan and their other neighbors into going along with them on certain points, especially Taiwan. They are nearly there now. Hopefully they learned from the Soviet example of what NOT to do. But they WILL compete with us, especially for resources as their industry continues it's expansion. |
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Post by tits on Jan 23, 2006 19:02:30 GMT -8
I don't see their expansion going that far. Likely they'll expand to the point where they can intimidate Taiwan, Japan and their other neighbors into going along with them on certain points, especially Taiwan. They are nearly there now.
I really wonder if this DPRK thing will ever fully erupt into a nasty boil. It seems that China would have as much to lose as the ROK. It would appear that China would take a preemptive action should Jung Il get to big for his own good.
I am troubled by the Discovery Times piece last with on the DPRK. While the "little peons" do not spout the same intensity of hate, many of the leadership interviewed blamed America for all their ills. They firmly believe that the US initiated the war in 1950 for oil. That level of belief-perseverance leads to blind obedience and blind rage. It just seems that somewhere in the not to distant future, Jung or one of his minions is going to go too far.
What will be the relationship between the PRC and the USA/West?
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Post by tits on Jan 23, 2006 19:34:07 GMT -8
"Little Ice Age: Big Chill"?
They closed with a 10-minute segment on the DOD model projections. Basically, the DOD acknowledges that a climate shift is underway, the reason is unclear, but has been a recurring theme throughout recorded history. Within 100-years the climate in the northern latitudes could drop by as much as 9„af due to a loss of the Atlantic Conveyor (the flow of cooler water south and the warmer water north). This will cause the colder Northern waters to grow colder and throw us into a similar ice age to that which occurred 1000-years ago. The models were constructed all available historical data with the new projections in climate change.
The mini ice age will cause a reduction in the growing seasons to the point where normal temperate crops will fail. Current fresh water sources to freeze. This lack of food and water will cause China and India to compete with each other for the remaining sources. The US will be forced to get involved as the EU is thrown into civil war as the nation-states compete for food and water. The result could be a total world war.
Crypto, did you ever work with those intel boys at strategic planning? How about your First Sargent? I have often wished to be able to read their closed case models to see how accurate they have been.
In 1925 Hecter Bywater a naval historian and journalist wrote : "The Great Pacific War: A History of the American-Japanese Campaign of 1931-33 in which he correctly predicted Pearl Harbor and total destruction of Japan. I have wondered if Clancy had the same insights about the end of the Cold War. His book the Bear and the Dragon has a conflict that erupts out of competing economic interest.
The Nazis and the Soviets were at loggerheads due to ideologies, much like the Capitalist West and the Soviets. However, right now I don't see an ideology conflict with China as much as an economic conflict over the dwindling hydrocarbons and food.
How will South America's bread basket play into the resource equation?
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Post by MrDoublel on Jan 24, 2006 7:18:25 GMT -8
Um, Titus...What the hell does the weather have to do with China building a carrier force? :-)
What I see is a Chinese carrier force that would give our 1980's navy some consternation. The thing is WHEN they get that force we will still be several technological steps ahead of them redering their force obsolete in any action against us, japan or tiawan.
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Post by Sailor on Jan 24, 2006 16:30:03 GMT -8
Tittus wrote:
The PRC is PyongYang's patron after all. I also would expect Bejing to yank his chokechain before he gets too far out of hand. I'm with you, a nuclear exchange between NK and anyone else will hurt the PRC badly along with anyone else downwind of the new Korean glass factory. I don't see them allowing the little weasel to go anywhere near that far before the put him into a body bag.
No Tittus, most of the intel I saw dealt with current events and tactical situations. I never got to the levels you are talking about.
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Post by tankcommander on Mar 26, 2006 18:26:12 GMT -8
Three words for their carrier battle group.
NUCLEAR ATTACK SUBMARINE! ;D
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