Food for thought.

[packer]

What is your opinion of religion. There is no doubt that it is mostly a matter of faith.

I once heard someone say "Religion for most people is similar to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny for adults."

Hmm................

[101ABN]

packer said:

What is your opinion of religion. There is no doubt that it is mostly a matter of faith.

I once heard someone say "Religion for most people is similar to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny for adults."

Hmm................

Of what faith was he?

It seems that your "food for thought" is devoid of nourishment.

[FightingFalcon]

packer said:

What is your opinion of religion. There is no doubt that it is mostly a matter of faith.

I once heard someone say "Religion for most people is similar to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny for adults."

Hmm................

IMHO, religion is something that mortal, fallible humans like ourselves can never understand. We will always have moments of doubt, for none of us are perfect. For once packer, you're right though - religion is mostly a matter of faith. It's something that cannot be proven and it requires the believer to take a leap of faith to accept the impossible. Christians are required to believe that Christ actually rose from the dead. Muslims that an Archangel spoke to Muhammed. Jews that a man could part a body of water. And so forth.

People who want religion to be easily acceptable haven't yet begun to understand what religion is about. If it were boiled down to something as easy as a mathmatical formula, there would be no such thing as faith. Everyone would believe simply because it was the truth. That isn't the way that it works.

[101ABN]

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1


Believing is seeing.

[FightingFalcon]

101ABN said:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1


Believing is seeing.

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

John 20:28

[mateo]

My faith is my faith, and your faith is your faith, and some other guy's faith is his faith. People get all bent out of shape about reliigon, and that's just stupid. Even if the Catholic Church were to collapse, or Christianity were to be outlawed, I'd still have my faith. No one can take that away.

I actually refuse to debate religion with anybody.

[packer]

As Mateo said, "religion" is basically faith and it's in the eye of the beholder. To me, that's the basic and fatal flaw of "religion" per se: it is based on and it depends on faith. It always seems to go back to that and any incongruity or question is often answered by that belief. But when facts and truth are ignored then religion loses all validity IMO.

Now don't get me wrong, I have no problem with anyone believing in any religion or "faith" that they so desire as long as it doesn't affect me or infringe on my rights. But throughout history that has often not been the case. And virtually ALL organized religions can be shown to be guilty to some extent--and often to a horrendous extent.

There seems to be another "belief" in most organized religions and it sometimes causes the members to go over the edge. It seems to be most prevalent in the Islam faith today but they sure don't have a corner on it!

Anyone have an idea or guess what that might be?

[FightingFalcon]

packer said:

As Mateo said, "religion" is basically faith and it's in the eye of the beholder. To me, that's the basic and fatal flaw of "religion" per se: it is based on and it depends on faith. It always seems to go back to that and any incongruity or question is often answered by that belief. But when facts and truth are ignored then religion loses all validity IMO.

Now don't get me wrong, I have no problem with anyone believing in any religion or "faith" that they so desire as long as it doesn't affect me or infringe on my rights. But throughout history that has often not been the case. And virtually ALL organized religions can be shown to be guilty to some extent--and often to a horrendous extent.

There seems to be another "belief" in most organized religions and it sometimes causes the members to go over the edge. It seems to be most prevalent in the Islam faith today but they sure don't have a corner on it!

Anyone have an idea or guess what that might be?

Yet the "Enlightenment" was one of the most turbulent and violent eras in human history. Atheist and Secular leaders, (i.e. Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Ze Dong) have been among the worst in the world. Certainly worse than any Chrisitan leaders.

Care to explain why secular humanism and Atheism has brought more violence to this world than every religion combined?

[tits]

101ABN said:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1


Believing is seeing.

That is the foundation for most Christians and the very reason why the agnostics like Packer and CRW and the atheists like Grump cannot understand. Heck, the Priest even confronted Grump about the nonsense he posted once for it even insulted the Buddhist

John 17:19-21 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified. “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

John 20:24-29 Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it.” A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”<br>

[packer]

Actually FF, what I meant was the false and foolish belief held by so many of "faith" that they, and only they, have the one true path to eternal salvation. There is no such thing. Period. All organized religions are the results of men. And many of those men were not good men!

Any organized religion that preaches that sort of "one true path to heaven" crap is a pox upon mankind. It fosters unimaginable evil such as the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Conquistidors, and the nut cases who caused 9/11. They all have a common thread---they all "knew" that God was on their side and that allowed them to do the most horrific of deeds.

That's my issue with organized religion. It's not God or faith.

[FightingFalcon]

packer said:

Actually FF, what I meant was the false and foolish belief held by so many of "faith" that they, and only they, have the one true path to eternal salvation. There is no such thing. Period. All organized religions are the results of men. And many of those men were not good men!

Any organized religion that preaches that sort of "one true path to heaven" crap is a pox upon mankind. It fosters unimaginable evil such as the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Conquistidors, and the nut cases who caused 9/11. They all have a common thread---they all "knew" that God was on their side and that allowed them to do the most horrific of deeds.

That's my issue with organized religion. It's not God or faith.

I would take September 11th over a ruler like Stalin any day. Nothing like a Atheistic ruler who professes that there is no such thing as religion and who KNOWS that there is no such thing as a God.

I love you people - you act as though non-religious human beings are immune from the imperfections of mankind. Religion or no religion - it doesn't matter. The ruthless will use whatever means available to destroy their opponents and curry the favor of their people. Had Stalin lived in 1492 Spain, he'd have been a Catholic. Same goes for Ferdinand and Isabella living in 1930s Soviet Union.

[Remey688]

Mateo said:

My faith is my faith, and your faith is your faith, and some other guy's faith is his faith. People get all bent out of shape about reliigon, and that's just stupid. Even if the Catholic Church were to collapse, or Christianity were to be outlawed, I'd still have my faith. No one can take that away.

I actually refuse to debate religion with anybody.

Mate, that the best position to take.

[Husky23]

packer said:

Actually FF, what I meant was the false and foolish belief held by so many of "faith" that they, and only they, have the one true path to eternal salvation. There is no such thing. Period. All organized religions are the results of men. And many of those men were not good men!

Any organized religion that preaches that sort of "one true path to heaven" crap is a pox upon mankind. It fosters unimaginable evil such as the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Conquistidors, and the nut cases who caused 9/11. They all have a common thread---they all "knew" that God was on their side and that allowed them to do the most horrific of deeds.

That's my issue with organized religion. It's not God or faith.

Frankly I’m not all too fond of religion especially organized religion. Although I understand the reality of once a group or groups of folks that believe a particular way becomes large enough – it must be administratively managed. But, too many of ‘mans’ fingers in ‘religion’ and it reeks of varying and extremes of false rituals, false pretense, false realities, many falsehoods by meddling men that in the end distract, corrupt, and manipulate the entire intent of what the church is for and the ministry it is mandated to provide – per Gods written word.
But personal faith, trust and spiritual-ness are an entirely different matter.