All humans created equal?

[FightingFalcon]

Now, I know what our DoI says - all men are created equal, etc. However, how true is that statement? While I agree that all humans are entitled to the same equal rights (among them life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness), I refuse to believe that all humans are created equal.

I bring this up because there was another article in the WSJ today about the case of the Harvard President - who is under fire from every Femi-Nazi for his comments about women in the fields of science and math. In case you were living under a rock and didn't hear about this story, President Summers was asked why he believes there are fewer female professors in the fields of math and science as there are males. He simply offered the suggestion that perhaps women were naturally inferior to men in those fields. He didn't necessarily state it as a fact, nor did he claim women were inherently dumber than men. But nontheless every Femi-Nazi is up in arms and wants him fired. To Harvard's credit, they haven't fired him.....yet.

But this brings up a much bigger point. Are humans created equal with equal abilities? The answer is a resounding NO. Can I hit a golf ball as well as Tiger Woods, even if I practiced every day? Do I have the hand-eye co-ordination that it takes to hit a 99mph moving fastball, as Derek Jeter does? Clearly not. Do I have the intellectual capacity of Albert Einstein, allowing me to understand nuclear physics? Well I can't even understand Calculus so I won't try physics.

But you get my point. So it's clear that some individuals tower over others in their fields. But what about races and genders? Are some ethnicities and/or races inherently superior to others in certain aspects? Again, I'd say definitely. Due to centuries of owing their lives to the sea, the British are excellent natural sailors. Take a Hungarian on the other hand, put him on a boat, and see what happens. If humans were indeed all created equal, why have some civilizations prospered while others dug themselves into the ground? The Islamic world was once the center of learning and enlightened thought - compared to a backwards Europe stuck in the Dark Ages. Now that situation is clearly reversed. How come the city of Rome was able to dominate its larger neighbors? If all people were created equal, wouldn't the numerically superior city/country/kingdom etc win every time?

I'm sorry, I just can't accept the fact that God makes all people equal. Some people are born with super-natural traits in them - and some races are naturally better than others in certain aspects. Are women naturally inferior to men in the field of science and math? I have no idea - only history will prove what the answer for that is. But it's time to stop crying "discrimination" and "sexual bias". Trying to claim sexual discrimination in a place like Harvard is like being a white member of the KKK and crying racial discrimination...

[101ABN]

The DoI never intended to presume equality in ability, intelligence, or physical traits, but that all were equally endowed by their Creator with the inalienable rights that you mention and as such, all are equal in the sight of God.

[packer]

101 is correct. You seem to be confusing athletic or intellectual ability with the "inalienable rights" mentioned in the DoI. Two very different and non-related entities.

Footspeed or hand/eye coordination or the ability to throw a 100 mph fast ball or crush a golf ball has nothing whatsoever to do with the right of EVERY person to "...life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness..." per our nation's credo. (BTW, I will watching those golf balls get "crushed" when I go down to Augusta for the Monday practice round next week!)

It's when the dumbass politicians or judges try to juxtapose them is when we get into all the crap that causes the problems and issues.

[ReformedLiberal]

Created equal in the sense that they are equal under the law. Most of the individual abilities that you cite were/are cultivated after birth through nuture, training, practice, cultural influences, etc. They were not born able to hit golf balls, baseballs, or sail the high seas, etc.

Granted, each individual may be born with different inherant traits, potentials, and proclivities...but the point is that they sould not be favored or hindered by society or the state due to the circumstances of their birth. No permanent aristocracy or underclass, no favoritism granted to prominent families, no punishing the son for the sins of the father, etc.

[stratagosv]

fightingfalcon said:

Now, I know what our DoI says - all men are created equal, etc. However, how true is that statement? While I agree that all humans are entitled to the same equal rights (among them life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness), I refuse to believe that all humans are created equal.

I bring this up because there was another article in the WSJ today about the case of the Harvard President - who is under fire from every Femi-Nazi for his comments about women in the fields of science and math. In case you were living under a rock and didn't hear about this story, President Summers was asked why he believes there are fewer female professors in the fields of math and science as there are males. He simply offered the suggestion that perhaps women were naturally inferior to men in those fields. He didn't necessarily state it as a fact, nor did he claim women were inherently dumber than men. But nontheless every Femi-Nazi is up in arms and wants him fired. To Harvard's credit, they haven't fired him.....yet.

But this brings up a much bigger point. Are humans created equal with equal abilities? The answer is a resounding NO. Can I hit a golf ball as well as Tiger Woods, even if I practiced every day? Do I have the hand-eye co-ordination that it takes to hit a 99mph moving fastball, as Derek Jeter does? Clearly not. Do I have the intellectual capacity of Albert Einstein, allowing me to understand nuclear physics? Well I can't even understand Calculus so I won't try physics.

But you get my point. So it's clear that some individuals tower over others in their fields. But what about races and genders? Are some ethnicities and/or races inherently superior to others in certain aspects? Again, I'd say definitely. Due to centuries of owing their lives to the sea, the British are excellent natural sailors. Take a Hungarian on the other hand, put him on a boat, and see what happens. If humans were indeed all created equal, why have some civilizations prospered while others dug themselves into the ground? The Islamic world was once the center of learning and enlightened thought - compared to a backwards Europe stuck in the Dark Ages. Now that situation is clearly reversed. How come the city of Rome was able to dominate its larger neighbors? If all people were created equal, wouldn't the numerically superior city/country/kingdom etc win every time?

I'm sorry, I just can't accept the fact that God makes all people equal. Some people are born with super-natural traits in them - and some races are naturally better than others in certain aspects. Are women naturally inferior to men in the field of science and math? I have no idea - only history will prove what the answer for that is. But it's time to stop crying "discrimination" and "sexual bias". Trying to claim sexual discrimination in a place like Harvard is like being a white member of the KKK and crying racial discrimination...

I think women being inferior in math and science then men is largely cultural not biological, HOWEVER, OBVIOUSLY different races have traits that set them apart therefore we are NOT all equal physically. Aussie Aborigines can sleep in the dessert at night without cloths, or fire. They sweat less then other races too. Blacks from western Africa need less oxygen to run fast (that's why they are usually faster then other people) Intelligent wise though? Mostly cultural, every race at one time or another seems to have had an empire.