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Post by dustdevil28 on Apr 2, 2008 14:37:03 GMT -8
It sure does. Atheists are, historically, pacifists who can be found in all walks of life and all strata of society. Theists, meanwhile, have dominated Western society for the past 2000 years and have caused untold deaths and human suffering.
I'm sure we've gone over this, but I'll say it again. Hitler and Stalin weren't exactly theists now we're they.
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Post by FightingFalcon on Apr 2, 2008 15:13:11 GMT -8
It sure does. Atheists are, historically, pacifists who can be found in all walks of life and all strata of society. Theists, meanwhile, have dominated Western society for the past 2000 years and have caused untold deaths and human suffering.I'm sure we've gone over this, but I'll say it again. Hitler and Stalin weren't exactly theists now we're they. Not arguing this one. It's quite possibly the most beaten-to-death horse in the world. Hitler was by no means an Atheist. Not that I trust Wikipedia but I'm not going to waste my time explaining why. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_beliefsAs for Stalin - yes, most likely he was an Atheist. But never once did he mention that he was carrying out his purges because of his Atheism. He did it because of his paranoid megalomania and complete disrespect for human life. |
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Post by youngstown on Apr 2, 2008 20:42:43 GMT -8
Atheists are quite happy when one religion pits itself against another......if reading THC's History of Chritianity is any indication. It seems that it's even encouraged.
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Post by FightingFalcon on Apr 3, 2008 8:25:51 GMT -8
Atheists are quite happy when one religion pits itself against another......if reading THC's History of Chritianity is any indication. It seems that it's even encouraged. No, we aren't. We don't enjoy watching human suffering and misery brought upon by Bronze Age fairy tales. |
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Post by dustdevil28 on Apr 3, 2008 13:54:27 GMT -8
Hitler was by no means an Atheist. Not that I trust Wikipedia but I'm not going to waste my time explaining why.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_beliefs
As for Stalin - yes, most likely he was an Atheist. But never once did he mention that he was carrying out his purges because of his Atheism. He did it because of his paranoid megalomania and complete disrespect for human life.So because staling does not mention that he's doing this because of his athiesm he gets a pass? One of the first things the Bolsheviks did when they came to power was to attack any religion because they saw faith in anything other than government as a threat to their power. Yes, he was peranoid, but certainly his athiesm left him with no qualms about attacking those with faith. Oddly enough, this was evident in the Soviet Union even 70 years later when the Soviet Union worked to try and limit and undermine the Catholic Church during the Solidarity movement in Poland. As for Hitler, I guess there is less evidence that he was athiest, but I would argue that he doesn't quite qualify as a theist either.
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Post by FightingFalcon on Apr 3, 2008 19:03:36 GMT -8
"So because staling does not mention that he's doing this because of his athiesm he gets a pass?"
I do the same thing for Theists. I don't criticize blood-thirsty Theists (e.g. Mussolini) just because they are Theists. They have to be doing it in the name of whatever god they believe in, e.g. suicide bombers, Felipe II of Spain, Karl V of Germany, etc.
Stalin's purges have nothing to do with his Atheism, just as Mussolini's invasions of Albania, North Africa, etc. had nothing to do with his Theism. Therefore, it makes no sense to claim that Atheism drives one to mass-murder.
"One of the first things the Bolsheviks did when they came to power was to attack any religion because they saw faith in anything other than government as a threat to their power."
You said it yourself - they attacked anything that was a threat to their power. That included whatever semblance of civil liberties that existed in White Russia, the aristocracy, the army, religion, etc. Again - Stalin's purges against the church had nothing to do with his Atheism just as his purges against the Army had nothing to do with his Atheism. He purged all aspects of society that conflicted with his desire for being the ultimate power in the State. Claiming that Stalin ordered the purges as a direct result of his Atheism is completely false.
"As for Hitler, I guess there is less evidence that he was athiest, but I would argue that he doesn't quite qualify as a theist either."
A monotheist - definitely not. But a Theist most certainly. Hitler was obsessed with the Occult and German mythology. His religious beliefs didn't drive his racial hatred of non-Aryans (an idea that is separate from religion) but he certainly held very strong Occult beliefs. Something as simple as picking the Swastika - one of the world's oldest and widely used religious symbols - is an example of this.
Incidentally, I'm just about to finish The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Outstanding book that I highly recommend for anyone interested in Nazi Germany. It's definitely changed some pre-conceived notions that I had about how it operated.
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