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Post by americanpride on Aug 2, 2005 6:20:24 GMT -8
As we certainly know, "genocide" is perhaps regarded as the most evil activity of mankind. In the 20th century and into the 21st, we have consistently illustrated to ourselves that there are no limits to the amount of death we can inflict on ourselves.
However, our Holy Bible has many examples of "just" genocide, where God ordered the Israelites to exterminate several peoples who were enemies of God.
Therefore, I ask, under what circumstances is genocide justified?
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Post by mateo on Aug 2, 2005 13:12:12 GMT -8
As we certainly know, "genocide" is perhaps regarded as the most evil activity of mankind. In the 20th century and into the 21st, we have consistently illustrated to ourselves that there are no limits to the amount of death we can inflict on ourselves. However, our Holy Bible has many examples of "just" genocide, where God ordered the Israelites to exterminate several peoples who were enemies of God. Therefore, I ask, under what circumstances is genocide justified? Never. The Old Testament is certainly not a book to live your life by. We're Christians. The New Testament will do just fine. |
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Post by americanpride on Aug 2, 2005 16:38:34 GMT -8
As we certainly know, "genocide" is perhaps regarded as the most evil activity of mankind. In the 20th century and into the 21st, we have consistently illustrated to ourselves that there are no limits to the amount of death we can inflict on ourselves. However, our Holy Bible has many examples of "just" genocide, where God ordered the Israelites to exterminate several peoples who were enemies of God. Therefore, I ask, under what circumstances is genocide justified? Never. The Old Testament is certainly not a book to live your life by. We're Christians. The New Testament will do just fine. God is unchanging. Therefore, whatever is just for God then, is just for God now. |
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Post by mateo on Aug 2, 2005 16:51:25 GMT -8
Never. The Old Testament is certainly not a book to live your life by. We're Christians. The New Testament will do just fine. God is unchanging. Therefore, whatever is just for God then, is just for God now. Then everything Jesus said and did means nothing. If Jesus preached to turn the other cheek and love your enemy, and God tells us to exterminate his enemies, then who do we follow? Jesus is, after all, one of the three persons in one God. |
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Post by americanpride on Aug 2, 2005 16:57:22 GMT -8
God is unchanging. Therefore, whatever is just for God then, is just for God now. Jesus isn't a peacenik - evident by the flames and swords he wields in Revelations. God exterminated a number of peoples - not to mention drowned the entire world. So - when is that just? Then everything Jesus said and did means nothing. If Jesus preached to turn the other cheek and love your enemy, and God tells us to exterminate his enemies, then who do we follow? Jesus is, after all, one of the three persons in one God. |
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Post by mateo on Aug 2, 2005 17:10:29 GMT -8
I'm of the belief that reveleations wasn't exactly a narrative of the end of the world. I beleive it was directed toward the Roman Empire. But, like much in the bible, that belief is subjective. As for revelations itself, I put no stock in it. There's no reason for me to believe a bunch of fantasies and horror stories that is the Book of Revelations. For me, the Bible begins and ends pretty much with the Gospels and the Acts.
Yes, God flooded the Earth, according the writings of the Old Testament. God also made a covenant to never to do something like that again. Chris, we both took History 101 (western civ) many moons ago. The greenest college freshmen knows that the Old Testament is really what amounts to a history of the early Hebrews.
Love your enemy, do good to those who hurt you, turn the other cheek... That sounds like a peacenik to me. The guy was hanging nailed to a cross, and he forgave his executioners. Perhaps Jesus showed a little temper when he lost it at the temple not long before his arrest, but I certainly do not see how that justifies any kind of genocide.
But what are you really getting at here?
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Post by americanpride on Aug 2, 2005 17:30:23 GMT -8
I'm of the belief that reveleations wasn't exactly a narrative of the end of the world. I beleive it was directed toward the Roman Empire. But, like much in the bible, that belief is subjective. As for revelations itself, I put no stock in it. There's no reason for me to believe a bunch of fantasies and horror stories that is the Book of Revelations. For me, the Bible begins and ends pretty much with the Gospels and the Acts. Yes, God flooded the Earth, according the writings of the Old Testament. God also made a covenant to never to do something like that again. Chris, we both took History 101 (western civ) many moons ago. The greenest college freshmen knows that the Old Testament is really what amounts to a history of the early Hebrews. Love your enemy, do good to those who hurt you, turn the other cheek... That sounds like a peacenik to me. The guy was hanging nailed to a cross, and he forgave his executioners. Perhaps Jesus showed a little temper when he lost it at the temple not long before his arrest, but I certainly do not see how that justifies any kind of genocide. But what are you really getting at here? What makes you think I'm trying to "get at" anything? |
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Post by cameron on Aug 4, 2005 17:04:38 GMT -8
As we certainly know, "genocide" is perhaps regarded as the most evil activity of mankind. In the 20th century and into the 21st, we have consistently illustrated to ourselves that there are no limits to the amount of death we can inflict on ourselves. However, our Holy Bible has many examples of "just" genocide, where God ordered the Israelites to exterminate several peoples who were enemies of God. Therefore, I ask, under what circumstances is genocide justified? Genocide is never justified Chris you might want to research just war theory. The bible was written by men and is subject to their prejudices and perceptions. That god allowed for something is not the same as an endorsement. A great deal of what is in the bible is poorly understood. You need to understand it in connection with who the audience at the time was. Take the "an eye for an eye" that is so often quoted from the old testament, it is a very misunderstood lesson. At the time blood feuds and tribal fighting was common. What that passage in the bible is trying to teach is proportionality, that you may not as a matter of justice require more than an eye for an eye. Another example of a bible lesson that is also widely quoted but generally misunderstood is the turn the other cheek lesson. Jesus was preaching to an oppressed and occupied peoples. When he preached to turn the other cheek it was not in a passive or submissive way but to offer up the other cheek in a defiant way confident in the lords support and that you could not be defeated even when oppressed and occupied. Well I got of topic sorry anyway I hope to have helped a little in your continuing understanding. |
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Post by americanpride on Aug 4, 2005 17:07:40 GMT -8
Well, I would imagine that God commanding a people to be exterminated is an endorsement of them being exterminated.  The "just war" theory is limited in that it does not permit pursuing war pro-actively; i.e. OIF. |
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Post by cameron on Aug 4, 2005 17:30:02 GMT -8
Well, I would imagine that God commanding a people to be exterminated is an endorsement of them being exterminated. The "just war" theory is limited in that it does not permit pursuing war pro-actively; i.e. OIF. Chris right now there is a show on the history of Britain I've been waiting to see where they compare Winston Churchill to George Orwell that I would like to watch uninterrupted. You are taking a literal view of the bible that is not very informative or useful. Like I said you need to remember who the audience at the time was and who in fact wrote the passage and what was the lesson that is trying to be conveyed by the passage. To use the bible in an attempt to justify genocide is really rather sad. As for just war theory you are just plain wrong. You do have those who would agree with you on this one though, but not all. One of the first principles of moral behavior is self preservation. To pro-actively prevent an act of evil from being perpetrated is not counter to just war theory. Anyway I am missing my show sorry gotta go have a good night. We can continue this latter I hope. |
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Post by mateo on Aug 5, 2005 6:04:35 GMT -8
I'm of the belief that reveleations wasn't exactly a narrative of the end of the world. I beleive it was directed toward the Roman Empire. But, like much in the bible, that belief is subjective. As for revelations itself, I put no stock in it. There's no reason for me to believe a bunch of fantasies and horror stories that is the Book of Revelations. For me, the Bible begins and ends pretty much with the Gospels and the Acts. Yes, God flooded the Earth, according the writings of the Old Testament. God also made a covenant to never to do something like that again. Chris, we both took History 101 (western civ) many moons ago. The greenest college freshmen knows that the Old Testament is really what amounts to a history of the early Hebrews. Love your enemy, do good to those who hurt you, turn the other cheek... That sounds like a peacenik to me. The guy was hanging nailed to a cross, and he forgave his executioners. Perhaps Jesus showed a little temper when he lost it at the temple not long before his arrest, but I certainly do not see how that justifies any kind of genocide. But what are you really getting at here? What makes you think I'm trying to "get at" anything? What's the point of this post? Genocide is always wrong. |
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Post by FightingFalcon on Aug 28, 2005 12:42:17 GMT -8
Genocide is always wrong when practiced by humans.
God cannot practice genocide because He is perfect and without sin. Genocide is in and of itself an evil act that God is not capable of committing. When Hitler murdered millions of people, he was committing an act of genocide. When God killed (not murdered) millions of people (indeed, the entire human race), He was acting in the name of justice.
Therefore, "genocide" when practiced by God is perfectly acceptable because He has the right to do anything He wants for He is 100% good. Genocide practiced by humans is always wrong, however. Just because God does something does not mean that we have the right to do it as well.
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wolfen244
First Class Member
You're insufferable.
Posts: 114
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Post by wolfen244 on Sept 11, 2005 5:15:00 GMT -8
justifying genocide is a snap. kill all islamofascists. all of 'em. right down to the last suicide bomber. if that ever happened i'd ice up a cold one. this is carling black label beer. it's not even that good but it would do in a pinch. even the bottle reminds me of a pepsi.  |
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Post by cataracts on Nov 7, 2006 2:21:47 GMT -8
As we certainly know, "genocide" is perhaps regarded as the most evil activity of mankind. In the 20th century and into the 21st, we have consistently illustrated to ourselves that there are no limits to the amount of death we can inflict on ourselves. However, our Holy Bible has many examples of "just" genocide, where God ordered the Israelites to exterminate several peoples who were enemies of God. Therefore, I ask, under what circumstances is genocide justified? Genocide is justified if God tells you to do it. How do you know that God is talking to you. I don't know. Ask a Muslim. Cataracts |
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Post by cataracts on Nov 7, 2006 2:30:07 GMT -8
Never. The Old Testament is certainly not a book to live your life by. We're Christians. The New Testament will do just fine. God is unchanging. Therefore, whatever is just for God then, is just for God now. American Pride True, God is unchanging. For some reason he wanted those people in the Promised Land to be killed. I don't remember God talking like that anytime in the recent past. He is still unchanging. If I had to guess about those people in the Promised Land, I would say that He wanted them dead because they would be an immediate danger to His chosen people.. It doesn't really make any difference what the reason was. If God says they were to die, then they had to die. Another point is that God wanted them all dead, however, He would take care of the spiritual souls once they died. Just like He takes care of all of us. Cataracts |
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