The growing backlash...

[cameron]

Thursday, June 01, 2006
The growing backlash...

It may be too late to avoid the backlash if Ruben Navarette is correct.

Sadly, I think that he is.

Whether it was the nasty slime from Vox Day, or the constant harping of an "invasion" from numerous people, the right's rhetoric on immigration, particularly vis-a-vis Mexico, has been disgusting. Take a look at some of the stuff Navarette reported:

As one of the few Hispanic syndicated columnists, I'm treated like a piata. There was the reader who accused me of supporting "the Mexican invasion because you're Mexican" and the gentleman who suggested that by supporting comprehensive reform, I was probably "protecting some relatives."

There was even a woman who called to complain about a column I had written and ended up screaming into the phone about how "you people never understand" the immigration issue.

We just need to look at the unhinged rhetoric of Polipundit or to see the ugliness. Those who supported the Senate's bill were received labels like "Quisling" or "agent of Mexico". It also comes in the form of silence from people like Michelle Malkin - studiously avoiding the evidence of the slimy people that are on her side of the debate (like Jared Taylor, Lawrence Auster, and Steve Sailer) while at the same time complaining about mischaracterization when people raise questions about them - as I found out when I called out Vox Day.

That is the dirty little secret the right has on the immigration debate. They can raise all sorts of insinuations, and fire off hyperbole, but we are not allowed to ask questions about the foul odor that is detectable - even when our eyes can plainly see the source of that odor. Why? Would the answers be that disagreeable to them? Would it force them to have to stand up to people who they really don't want to have to stand up to?

The real tragedy is that in many ways, Gary Bauer is right when he discusses the issue in a column trying to promote Congressman Pence's legislation (although he forgot to note that Tom Tancredo labeled it "amnesty", too). Hispanics - and recent immigrants - are natural fits for the Republican party. But the ugliness of a few - and the tolerance of that ugliness by many others - drives them away. When conservatives do not speak out against vile comments, or do not distance themselves from the trash that Navarette detailed in his column, then it will deservedly lose a lot of support as people will rightly perceive it to have fallen into slimy swamps of feverish fanaticism. It is a different sort than what is seen from the DailyKos/MoveOn/DU types, but it is a slimy swamp nonetheless, and it is where I get off.

I suppose at some point, some conservatives are going to ask me why I am being so touchy about this. It is an understandable question, but one that I have a ready answer for. Just look at the rhetoric. Why should I even give the time of day to people who view me as a Quisling or agent of Mexico? Should I say to a person who views me as supporting "the emasculation and gradual overthrow of the America we know", that all is forgiven, and then act as if nothing has changed?

I can only speak for myself on this, but I cannot see how anyone can work with people who doubt their support for this country just because they do not toe a certain line on an issue that is small potatoes when compared with the war on terror, replacing the tax code with a flat tax, protecting the institution of marriage, reforming the entitlement programs that could bankrupt this country, and getting good federal judges confirmed. I certainly do not view conservatism the way I viewed it as little as eight months ago.

Perhaps Ruben Navarette has underestimated the coming backlash against the right. I only hope that the country doesn't pay the price for it.





By Ruben Navarrette
As a Mexican-American, I'm hearing from a lot of U.S.-born Hispanics who are convinced that the immigration debate is a proxy for an assault on them, their language and their culture. The Senate fed that perception last month when it voted to declare English the "national language," and turned the debate over immigration into a debate over language.

Correction: This was always a debate about language — and culture and ethnicity. The Senate just made it official.

For many Americans, the problem isn't just that people are coming into the country illegally. It's that once they get here, these folks change their surroundings, maintain their Spanish and transform Main Street into Little Mexico. Those changes terrify many Americans, who complain about feeling like visitors in their native land.

And how do they respond? A recent report by the Southern Poverty Law Center found that tension over illegal immigration has contributed to a spike in hate groups and hate crimes. In fact, says a spokesman for the center, the immigration issue is a recruitment tool for racists and reactionaries.

Heated reactions

I could have told them that. As one of the few Hispanic syndicated columnists, I'm treated like a piata. There was the reader who accused me of supporting "the Mexican invasion because you're Mexican" and the gentleman who suggested that by supporting comprehensive reform, I was probably "protecting some relatives."

There was even a woman who called to complain about a column I had written and ended up screaming into the phone about how "you people never understand" the immigration issue.

I understand this much: As the national mood on immigration reform turns vile and even in some cases violent, there is the very real possibility of a backlash by assimilated, U.S.-born Hispanics.

It makes sense. There is so much bad out there — from death threats received by California Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante and Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, to the deliberate burning of a Mexican restaurant near San Diego, to the beating and sodomizing of a Hispanic youth in Houston by two young thugs who, according to police, yelled racial slurs — that it is bound to repel the good-hearted.

Recently, my cousin called me in a rage after stumbling on to a video game in which players shoot Mexican immigrants crossing the border. The game refers to some Mexicans as "breeders" and splatters blood when players hit their target. Even as an assimilated Mexican-American with limited exposure to Mexico, my cousin said, the ugliness of it made him want to defend Mexican immigrants just as he would a member of his immediate family.

Other Mexican-Americans tell me the same thing. A lot of them use the same word: defend. They want to defend immigrants.

Granted, 40 million Hispanics aren't monolithic. Note the emergence of You Don't Speak for Me, a group of Hispanics who oppose illegal immigration. Also note that in a poll last year by the Pew Hispanic Center, U.S.-born Hispanics were divided. Fifty-five percent said illegal immigrants help the economy by providing low-cost labor, while 34% said they hurt the economy by driving down wages.

Shifting attitudes

Here's the deal. The U.S-born Hispanic community is no different from the American community. There are the extremes, but the majority of folks are in the sensible center. Whenever someone does something dumb or hurtful, they recoil.

When protesters waved the Mexican flag, some folks in the middle moved to the right. But now that they've read about hate crimes and racist video games and English being declared the national language, some are likely to move to the left and toward a greater identification with immigrants.

That's what I saw at a taping in Los Angeles of the 2006 ALMA awards, which honor Hispanics in entertainment. In a 90-minute ceremony to be aired on ABC on Monday, there were at least a dozen references to immigration and many references by presenters to Mexican immigrants as familia (family).

Actor Jimmy Smits noted the irony of playing, on NBC's The West Wing, a Hispanic who gets elected president while, as he put it, "out in the streets, my people were yelling si se puede (yes, we can)."

I got stuck on the "my people." Smits isn't Mexican-American. His father was born in the Dutch Suriname, in South America, and his mother is Puerto Rican. No matter. In this fight, he identifies with Mexican immigrants.

Something significant is happening in the Hispanic community. People say the immigration issue woke the Sleeping Giant. But mark my words: It's not just the giant whom immigrant-bashers should worry about. It's his familia.

[bounce]

Organize another ANTI-GRINGO day!

Tell us how fucked up we are as you proudly wave your Mexican flags!!!! SCREAM it in Spanish!

YOU RACIST, FASCIST, HATE-FILLED, HITLER-ESQUE GRINGOS!!!!!!!!

We'll clog your streets! We'll shut down your economy! We'll bring an end to life as you know it if you don't bow down to us! WE OWN YOU!!!!!

Oh yeah, here's another beauty... "We'll clip your wings!"

LOL

Since you taught us such a great lesson the first time, why not do it again and again?

Hmmmmmm???

Bring your pressure to bear until you get your way! Shut us down!

[cameron]

bounce said:

Organize another ANTI-GRINGO day!

Tell us how fucked up we are as you proudly wave your Mexican flags!!!! SCREAM it in Spanish!

YOU RACIST, FASCIST, HATE-FILLED, HITLER-ESQUE GRINGOS!!!!!!!!

We'll clog your streets! We'll shut down your economy! We'll bring an end to life as you know it if you don't bow down to us! WE OWN YOU!!!!!

Oh yeah, here's another beauty... "We'll clip your wings!"

LOL

Since you taught us such a great lesson the first time, why not do it again and again?

Hmmmmmm???

Bring your pressure to bear until you get your way! Shut us down!

Nice rant!

With these angry little screeds of yours, you are doing a much better job of destroying yourself then I really could. I think I"ll just get out of your way and let you show the people what you really are.

PS. Your wings have just been clipped boyo, your flopping around on the ground now.

[AmericanPride]

I'm Hispanic. I'm not Mexican. But here's a few thoughts and facts anyway:

I don't have any friends actually from Mexico.

I don't speak any Spanish.

I laugh on Cinco de Mayo because its a celebration for a single victory in a war that was lost.

I don't like the idea of people "cutting in line" to get into this country.

Nor do I like the idea of self-segregated communities not integrated with America-at-large.

I don't fancy illegal immigrants protesting in the streets about conditions they created by coming here illegal in the first place.

The idea that they "help" the economy by driving down prices and thereby justifying their stay is called EXPLOITATION.

Illegals account for about 5% of the workforce. America's unemployment rate is generally around 5%.

I want people to speak English so I can understand them, not because I hate Spanish or any other language.

I think some stereotypes are pretty funny.

I'm not racist. I feel the same way about everyone.

[AmericanPride]

Another thought...

America isn't a country of immigrants. Most of us were born here.

[cameron]

americanpride2 said:

I'm Hispanic. I'm not Mexican. But here's a few thoughts and facts anyway:

I don't have any friends actually from Mexico.

I don't speak any Spanish.

I laugh on Cinco de Mayo because its a celebration for a single victory in a war that was lost.

I don't like the idea of people "cutting in line" to get into this country.

Nor do I like the idea of self-segregated communities not integrated with America-at-large.

I don't fancy illegal immigrants protesting in the streets about conditions they created by coming here illegal in the first place.

The idea that they "help" the economy by driving down prices and thereby justifying their stay is called EXPLOITATION.

Illegals account for about 5% of the workforce. America's unemployment rate is generally around 5%.

I want people to speak English so I can understand them, not because I hate Spanish or any other language.

I think some stereotypes are pretty funny.

I'm not racist. I feel the same way about everyone.

I'm happy with just about all of that AP except for this one:

Illegals account for about 5% of the workforce. America's unemployment rate is generally around 5%.


That's all right though, most people are fairly ignorant of what constitutes full employment. You see we are at what is considered full employment now, well almost. The number represents people who are for the most part between jobs and represents the natural turn over in the economy. If you think that if the people who were not here illegally would mean we would be at 100% employment that's just plain silly. The fact is if we go much lower than we are now the economy will start to suffer. Our GDP is growing right now at 5% that's huge, and we are creating 2 million jobs a year. If we can't fill those jobs, then the economy will suffer. Those that are coming here are attracted by the jobs we are creating and the fact is if we want our economy to continue to do as well as it is, we need the labor. Now I think a legitimate concern might be raised by saying we can't assimilate that many new immigrants. Now I would disagree but that's not what people are saying or how the put it. Listen and pay close attention to just what they are saying. They are motivated by fear and anger and I would caution you never to join up with a movement that is motivated by fear and anger. History is replete with the lessons of just where such movement lead and it's always an ugly place. Anyway like I said I don't really have any problem with the rest of your positions.

AP calling our immigration issues part of an "Invasion" and those who support what we consider a more practical solution "Quislings" or that we are "Undermining the Nation" is over the top rhetoric. Like I've said before even if it's not true for any one individual, over all it sure seems to me that the anger generated is a sign of something deeper, and more sinister than a policy dispute.

[AmericanPride]

cameron --

"Full employment" isn't impossible. Many countries have achieved it in the past.

Additionally - hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of new people are added to the workforce every year; immigrants, graduates, or first-time job-seekers. There are plenty of ["legal"] people willing to work. In addition, a general scarcity of labor will drive wages up, which means more purchasing power for the average American. It's easy to conclude that the myth of full employment being damaging to the economy is used to protect businesses from actually having to pay decent wages and benefits to their employees. And - yes - I'm not afraid to say: I favor American labor. Most Americans are workers. Illegal immigration is destructive to American labor. And also to the American economy-at-large.

[cameron]

americanpride2 said:

cameron --

"Full employment" isn't impossible. Many countries have achieved it in the past.

Additionally - hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of new people are added to the workforce every year; immigrants, graduates, or first-time job-seekers. There are plenty of ["legal"] people willing to work. In addition, a general scarcity of labor will drive wages up, which means more purchasing power for the average American. It's easy to conclude that the myth of full employment being damaging to the economy is used to protect businesses from actually having to pay decent wages and benefits to their employees. And - yes - I'm not afraid to say: I favor American labor. Most Americans are workers. Illegal immigration is destructive to American labor. And also to the American economy-at-large.

AP please, you really are rather ill informed, go talk to people who actually know what they are talking about. From me your not going to do anything other than dispute me, but this is pretty standard stuff, and not disputed by any reputable professional economist.

[AmericanPride]

cameron --

Here we go again....

Calling the other person igornant doesn't refute any argument.

But you're welcome to try again.

I'll give you a head-start:

History demonstrates that general labor scarcities drive wages up, increasing purchasing power, rather than resulting in some gloom-and-doom market failure nightmare.

[bounce]

Calling the other person igornant doesn't refute any argument.

But you're welcome to try again.

It's all he knows how to do.

[AmericanPride]

bounce --

Here's something funny...

He says "go talk to people who actually know what they are talking about".

I was talking to him.

He isn't someone "who actually know what [he's] talking about"?

[cameron]

americanpride2 said:

cameron --

Here we go again....

Calling the other person igornant doesn't refute any argument.

But you're welcome to try again.

AP the first time I called you ignorant it wasn't meant as an insult I swear. I realized after that I could have been more diplomatic. That's why the second time I said ill informed. I'm not a teacher and I have no interest in going around and around the mulberry bush with you, on what is pretty standard and well accepted stuff. You are only going to think you can argue points with me. No AP what I stated is in fact well accepted to be true. Like I said do some research of your own, then get back to me.

[AmericanPride]

Cameron --

Like I said, history already demonstrates that labor scarcity drives up wages -- it doesn't matter what theory says.

You can do your own research if you like.

[cameron]

americanpride2 said:

Cameron --

Like I said, history already demonstrates that labor scarcity drives up wages -- it doesn't matter what theory says.

You can look it up if you like.

I'm really not interested in discussing your and again I'm not trying to put you down but limited understanding, go do the research first then we will talk.

[AmericanPride]

cameron --

Again, telling the other guy he's ignorant doesn't prove or disprove anything.

It only demonstrates you are unable to defend your position.

And to think - you're quick to call Bob and others close-minded.