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Post by Husky23 on Jun 1, 2006 8:29:15 GMT -8
Illegal Immigration:
Are you sure there’s not some other element in play here for you? Some other…very personal dynamic that has influenced your position on illegal immigration? You know…that looking in the mirror self appraisal and honesty dialog? I’m curious as to ALL the factors that have made you come to your position.
If you wish, that is.
Spare the darts though dude...I'm having a rought week.
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Post by bounce on Jun 1, 2006 9:11:22 GMT -8
I have asked him that repeatedly and he refuses to address it.
He probably got fed up with the process and said, "Fuck it."
If he was here legally, he wouldn't have such a big problem coming down on "ILLEGALS."
The fact he refuses to explain his position tells all.
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Post by cameron on Jun 1, 2006 9:15:04 GMT -8
Illegal Immigration: Are you sure there’s not some other element in play here for you? Some other…very personal dynamic that has influenced your position on illegal immigration? You know…that looking in the mirror self appraisal and honesty dialog? I’m curious as to ALL the factors that have made you come to your position. If you wish, that is. Spare the darts though dude...I'm having a rought week. No Husky there are no ulterior motives. Now you can believe that or not, there really isn't much I can do about that. I've been around here for awhile and I think it's fairly well established that my primary concern is for the safety of this nation, that I do in fact love. I think that all of you who think and feel as you do, are actually the ones putting the nation at risk, and I pray we don't pay the price for that. I do try to understand where you are coming from. I'm not saying all or even most who feel as you do have these motivations but I must say here on this board the motivations seem rather obviously to be fear and anger. I have never and will never sign up for a movement of any kind that's primary motivations are fear and anger. This thing put the hairs up on the back of my neck right from the git go. I'm a good natural fighter who long ago learned to trust his instincts. For the same reason I believe that democracy will work in Iraq is the same thing that makes me believe that the majority of people trying to come here legally or not, want not much more than a better life for themselves and their children. I see that as a totally positive motivation. We need to get control of our border because there are real enemies who do in fact mean to do real harm. Yes the people who are here illegally should not have done so but this isn't new. It's been going on for 20 years with a basic wink wink nudge nudge. I will also tell you I have come into personal contact with many of them. How could I not I've been living here the whole time and my jobs have been in landscaping, painting contracting with my brother, and in the food service industry. In fact if you live on Long Island you see them all over the place. I've spoken to all kinds of people here and I've yet to speak to anyone who thinks the idea of telling them they all must leave is even viable. no one I've spoken to in person thinks that. It's only over the net and on the tube, I swear. My brother and I went to pick up gyros yesterday and we were talking about this in the van. He is a double math major who graduated from Stoney Brooke val a whatever that is, made the who's who, whatever that is. Worked as an accountant for maybe 3 months then decided after 6 years of school he didn't like so now he's a painting contractor. Sorry I digressed, anyway he's like nope not gonna happen not here on Long Island and Husky that is exactly what everyone I talk to says. So excuse me for feeling as though I'm not all that out of touch. Then look at all the polling that has been done. Almost every single poll even if you disagree and there have been at least I think 9 that I've seen all put the enforcement only folks at 20 to 25% tops. So even if I thought what the solution you guys have proposed would work (which I don't) it isn't politically viable no matter how strongly you feel about it.
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Post by cameron on Jun 1, 2006 9:16:50 GMT -8
I have asked him that repeatedly and he refuses to address it. He probably got fed up with the process and said, "Fuck it." If he was here legally, he wouldn't have such a big problem coming down on "ILLEGALS." The fact he refuses to explain his position tells all. You twerp I've explained many times to you your just to dense to even make a decent counter argument. Now run along and go play with your fellow brownshirts and let the grown ups talk.
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Post by Husky23 on Jun 1, 2006 9:42:54 GMT -8
OK, I get your bit about us, we, our nation just blowing it off for X amount of years…no real national determination to actually enforce even the current laws
I get that there are plenty of good hardworking illegals…just trying to improve their lives and those of their families
I get also, you wish the border controlled in a serious effort.
And I get, as possibly as your primary point regarding this issue, is that in your realistic opinion, there’s no way in hell that we have the national will and resources to identify let alone to deport ALL illegals. So it’s kind of a learned helplessness…realistically accepting it can’t and really won’t be done…it’s all just political bull shit (again) to quell the public…then back to life a usual. So you’ve chosen amnesty as the realistic alternative.
Am I on the right track?
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Post by cameron on Jun 1, 2006 10:09:23 GMT -8
You are more or less on track but let me sort you out on it just a little something. For me it's not about having the national will to do something or not do something. The majority of the population is in agreement with me that the solution you propose will not work. 80% of the population is more in line with my views then they are with yours. Now I don't know just how accurate that is, but that's a fair statement concerning all the polls I've read. That is what makes your solution politically unviable. I'm sure everyone for a whole variety of different reasons shares my basic position, all except for a very vocal and very anger minority. I have no sense of helplessness, I don't subscribe that sort of a mentality. Do you really think I would be flying in the face of the onslaught from all of you if I was someone who ever gave up?
Talk to you in a bit, going for a walk. Want me to count the illegals I pass?
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Post by Husky23 on Jun 1, 2006 10:28:00 GMT -8
Was not my intent to infer that you have a personal “sense of helplessness” Cam, it’s a psychological term (sorry I’ve been casually seeing a psych major over the last few months - ya tell me about it) - liberal but leaning libertarian The term learned helplessness is used to refer to any behavioral or physiological consequence of exposure to an event that is produced not by the event itself but by the organism's lack of behavioral control over the event. Basically what, to me, your primary subscription in the illegal immigrant issue; they are here, we can’t anything about it, we won’t anyway…so fuck it.” ….Learned helplessness.
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Post by bounce on Jun 1, 2006 11:17:29 GMT -8
Was not my intent to infer that you have a personal “sense of helplessness” Cam, it’s a psychological term (sorry I’ve been casually seeing a psych major over the last few months - ya tell me about it) - liberal but leaning libertarian The term learned helplessness is used to refer to any behavioral or physiological consequence of exposure to an event that is produced not by the event itself but by the organism's lack of behavioral control over the event. Basically what, to me, your primary subscription in the illegal immigrant issue; they are here, we can’t anything about it, we won’t anyway…so fuck it.” ….Learned helplessness. No, no, no.... He doesn't have a learned sense of helplessness... That's what he wants US TO HAVE.He wants US to roll over and die on this issue. Somehow that will make his life better or he wouldn't be pushing it so hard. I'm not buying a fucking second of that "helplessness" shit! We haven't BEGUN TO FIGHT and that fact pisses him off. Husky, connect those dots and tell me what picture you see.
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Post by MARIO on Jun 1, 2006 11:27:50 GMT -8
go play with your fellow brownshirts and let the grown ups talk.
There ya go again!
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Post by bounce on Jun 1, 2006 11:46:49 GMT -8
I know....
I must say, I thought that was a pretty funny comment.
I laughed out loud.
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Post by cameron on Jun 1, 2006 14:50:51 GMT -8
Was not my intent to infer that you have a personal “sense of helplessness” Cam, it’s a psychological term (sorry I’ve been casually seeing a psych major over the last few months - ya tell me about it) - liberal but leaning libertarian The term learned helplessness is used to refer to any behavioral or physiological consequence of exposure to an event that is produced not by the event itself but by the organism's lack of behavioral control over the event. Basically what, to me, your primary subscription in the illegal immigrant issue; they are here, we can’t anything about it, we won’t anyway…so fuck it.” ….Learned helplessness. You know I actually think Rush said something about this on his show today. No sorry, I just do not buy into that sort of thing never have. My apologies to the new girl friend. Have always had a soft spot for libertarians, even the liberal ones, at least there’s some hope. It’s kind of like looking at a conservative through a fun house mirror.
I don’t think what you want to do is politically viable, for a whole host of reasons. There are so many of them it’s hard just to pick a few. Don’t think I can’t hear you thinking “oh well that’s part of the syndrome Cam“. Lets ignore for the moment that 80% of the public does not support your position. Ya sure, if we really wanted to we could in fact come up with the means to track every single person and transaction in the country, but at what price to my freedom and privacy?
The last best guess as to the size of the underground economy was about $970 billion, and it has probably currently passed the $1 trillion dollar mark. Anyone who tries to tell you they will be able to force compliance with hiring laws, by using the IRS and tax form information, is selling you bill of goods.
Do you have any idea just how large a cash economy that is? The proposed solutions I’ve seen, will only work to force the underground economy further underground. While at the same time making it larger. Tossing a few of the idiots dumb enough, or unlucky enough to get caught, isn’t even going to make a dent in that. The majority of illegal are not hired by large corporations, they try to stay in compliance with labor laws due to the fact it’s easy for the government to check up on them, and they know it. The overwhelming vast majority of illegal are hired by small business’s of twenty people or less. The idea that all you will need is a few show trials to scare the bastards willing to pay in cash into compliance, is a boondoggle.
What those who take this approach fail to understand is in order to force compliance, it is not enough to make examples of certain businesses who hire illegal immigrants. The government would have to make it clear to each and every business that it cannot risk hiring illegal immigrants because of the certainty of the fact that they would get caught. But how can the government make thousands and thousands of small businesses feel certain that they would get caught except by actually monitoring, on a virtually day by day basis their hiring practices? And how much bigger would our already big government have to get in order to achieve that ability to micro-manage all the independent businesses that use illegal immigrants as laborers? And who would pay for this new army of bureaucrats?
Now don’t think I can’t hear you say “well that’s just you being a defeatist again Cam, screw your head on right, join the team, get with the program, fight the good fight.”
Ya alright, what would it take to enforce hiring laws? Well lets think, right of the bat you are definitely going to need a way of discerning legal from illegal. That would require a national ID card that would be incapable of being forged. No worries there, great minds have already thought of that. The esteemed mayor of New York, a one Mr. Bloomberg has it covered. His plan is for every single legal employee in the nation, other wise known as U.S. citizens, to submit DNA samples to the government, and any proposed employer, sounds good.
Are you out of your frickin mind mayor Blooming moron! You want me to submit my DNA, something that can tell you just about every thing about me, from the 80% chance I will develop heart disease before my 45 birthday, to the color my eyes, and how fast my toenails grow? I’m to give this to the government, and some proposed employer? Just so that I can have the privilege of working in some bloody crumby kitchen? I’ve got a suggestion for you, GET BENT! I would much rather allow for those here illegally to establish a legal way to be here, then hand my bloody DNA over to El Supremo Governmente.
Oops sorry that must be that helplessness thingy I’m suffering from acting up, are there any ointments I might try?
I know Sensenbrenner is one of the heroes on your side of this, but that two faced moron is talking out of both sides of his mouth on this issue. The only reason you guys haven’t picked up on it is because the sounds he squirts out soothe your savage breasts. He’s a two faced floor shuffling dirt bag playing the whole lot of you like a violin. Check this out this transcript from Meet the Press:
REP. SENSENBRENNER: I’m not saying that the illegal immigrants will be sent home, and I think that the end sum game, which I hope Senator Hagel agrees with, is to turn the illegal immigrant work force into a legal work force, whether they’re legal immigrants or whether they’re United States citizens. Because this problem has festered for such a long period of time, that can’t be done with the wave of a wand or the signing of a bill by the president of the United States. But I get back to the point that unless we do employer sanctions right and do border security right, you’ll simply get more illegal immigrants coming across the border, and those that are here now might not apply for amnesty or whatever else it’s called because they’re afraid that they will price themselves out of the market and lose their jobs.
Husky I want the border secured and I want to be able to know who is coming and going in and out of the country. It is my honest opinion that unless we implement policies that are based in what I consider to be reality taking the market forces involved into consideration when crafting that policy. We are going to leave ourselves open to those I consider to be our real enemies. The axis of evil in concert with islamo-fascist terrorists who do in fact present an existential threat to the survival of our nation.
I’m seriously alarmed by the idea that while we argue over weather or not to let Pedro cut the grass we are going to miss catching some death cult Mohammedan (may piss be upon him) Anyway this seems like enough for now, if you want I’m sure I could come up with another 3 to 4 thousand really sound reasons why even if everyone in the country wanted to take your approach to our border security it wouldn’t work unless you take the economic realities that help create the problem in the first place into consideration. I’m just sorry I have no fear that a bunch of peasants coming here from south and central America. Who are in fact attracted to by our culture are going to usurp our culture. A culture so dominate it is sweeping the globe and is in fact the real reason we present a death threat to the islamo- fascists. Look if I’m wrong I hope you win if I’m right I pray to the Lord my fears are not realized. I plan on fighting the good fight right to the bitter end. It just you and I disagree on what that is, but all I can do is follow the light of my own conscience and it really doesn't make a difference to me if I'm the only being on the planet that thinks what I do, it's what I think and it has nothing to do with being a RINO are a Rockefeller conservative the very idea makes me want to puke. OK stopping now. Have a good night.
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Post by FightingFalcon on Jun 2, 2006 13:04:40 GMT -8
One thing - I was born and raised in America.
Hell, I've only left this country twice and I couldn't wait to get back here.
I also support "amnesty" because I believe it is the only realistic option.
No selfish motives, no personal reasons, nothing. Nothing but what I think are the best interests of the Republic.
It is possible to be un-selfish in this world.
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Post by oneifbyland on Jun 15, 2006 17:29:56 GMT -8
<<<My brother and I went to pick up gyros yesterday and we were talking about this in the van. He is a double math major who graduated from Stoney Brooke val a whatever that is, made the who's who, whatever that is.>>>
If you live on Long Island and your brother really graduated from Stony Brook with honors, I'd think you'd know how to actually SPELL Stony Brook. Unless you were just making up a bucket of crapola.
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