|
|
Post by Sailor on Aug 26, 2012 12:20:23 GMT -8
In April of this year a MK7 16 inch 50 cal rifle departed Norfolk VA storage for a new home in Phoenix AZ where it will be displayed along with a 14 inch battleship rifle.
The significance of these guns is, the 14 incher had served in USS Arizona (BB 39) from 1925 to 1938 when it was switched out with another for refurbishment. The 16 inch had served in the main armament of USS Missouri (BB 63). Both guns are to be displayed at the new Arizona Capitol Museum which is to be dedicated on Pearl Harbor Day 2012.
While I have no certain history of the Missouri rifle at present, at least one of the 16 inchers stored in Norfolk had been in that ship when she served as the platform for Japan's surrender and is now on its way to a new home at Cape Henlopen State Park in Delaware. The one in Phoenix may have as well.
The rifle from USS Arizona did fire in anger after it was installed in USS Nevada (BB 36) when that ship took German fortifications under fire at Normandy.
Information source - US Naval Institutes Naval History Magazine, August 2012 issue.
Like Army and Marine artillery pieces naval guns need refurbishment and re-lining of the tubes periodically so the Navy had a number of "spares" on hand whenever a ship's guns needed work or replacement. When the four Iowa class ships were reactivated in the 1980s many of their 16 inchers were pulled and replaced with units held in storage at the Washington Gun Factory and in storage fields and warehouses on both coasts after the stored units were inspected and recertified for use.
|
|
|
|
Post by tripleo on Aug 27, 2012 4:59:59 GMT -8
This reminded me of a thread on THC years ago when I was explaining the terminology used to identify guns used in the army and to some extent the navy - not being completely up on naval terms.
Confused the hell out of some folks, I'm afraid. They couldn't figure out how a 16 incher could only be a 50 cal weapon or that it was considered a rifle. The army only had one rifle, that being the 175, and three howitzers (which are often also called guns) - the 8 inch, 6 inch and 4.2 inch or 204mm, 155mm and 105mm respectively. Then there were the mortars, which technically weren't guns, such as the 4.2 mm. I can't remember what the cal of our split trail 155's was anymore, but I'm thinking they were around 23 calibre.
Just thought I would throw this in the mix and confuse everyone again ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by prospero on Sept 2, 2012 20:21:51 GMT -8
Leven an a half foot barrel?
|
|
|
|
Post by Sailor on Sept 4, 2012 15:02:52 GMT -8
Leven an a half foot barrel? In naval guns the "caliber" measures the length of the barrel beyond the chamber. 16"/50 cal means a weapon with a bore of 16 inches, the barrel length of 50 cal works out to 50 X 16 = 800 inches or 66.67 feet long. The MK-7 16" was the last and longest battleship rifle the USN produced and was only shipped (mounted) in the Iowa class BB. A very similar 16"/45 Cal rifle was shipped in the earlier North Carolina and South Dakota class BBs. |
|
|
|
Post by tankcommander on Sept 4, 2012 16:57:57 GMT -8
The army only had one rifle, that being the 175, and three howitzers (which are often also called guns) - the 8 inch, 6 inch and 4.2 inch or 204mm, 155mm and 105mm respectively. You're forgetting the 90mm on the M-48, and the M68 105mm high velocity rifled gun used on the M-60 series, and original M-1 Abrams MBTs M68 caliber (mm) 105 Length (mm) 5550 Barrel length (calibres) 50 Kind of interesting that high velocity tank guns have reverted back to smooth bores. The length of modern kinetic energy penetrators like the APFSDS makes them unable to be stabilized by a rifled barrel, so they are dart shaped, and fin stabilized. The SABOT rounds we shot in the old rifled 105mm actually had free floating bands around the projectile to keep the rifling from imparting spin. |
|
|
|
Post by tripleo on Sept 4, 2012 17:30:49 GMT -8
You're right, TC, I was thinking strictly of artillery. I believe that back in WWII and through the korean war they also had a 155 rifle. I was a bit young to care about it back then, though. ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by tripleo on Sept 4, 2012 18:07:56 GMT -8
Prospero, yeah, that's about right. Keep in mind that it's been 40+ years and a lot of this stuff has atrophied in the old grey matter. The Palidans (sp) had a much longer tube. I think that they were 39 calibre back in the 60's, but it wouldn't surprise me if that hasn't changed several times. Hell, we were still using M1A1's in 1969  . Built by the Oliver company back in the 40's. I guess the army figured if the straps broke and it dropped from the chopper, it wouldn't be a great loss  On the plus side, they were very accurate all the way out their max range and no one said a word if we pushed them far beyond their listed sustained rate of fire. The legs loved us.  |
|
|
|
Post by tankcommander on Sept 5, 2012 6:18:11 GMT -8
tripleo You mentioned the 175mm rifle, and the 8 inch howitzer...... Do these look familiar?   |
|
|
|
Post by tripleo on Sept 5, 2012 7:38:53 GMT -8
Yup, TC, they sure do.
Interesting thing is that they both used the same carriage. Some batteries had both 8 inch and 175 tubes and could swap them out for different firing circumstances. I never did fire a 175 but did fire 8 inchers. Us FDC dudes could transition fairly easily between the various artillery - it was more difficult for the gun bunnies to make the move. Can you imagine what it was like back in the 40's when they had 8 inch towed? Man, those must have been real pigs to play with.
Addressing an earlier issue: I got to thinking (dangerous occupation, I know) about rifles and artillery and, unless I'm wrong, the quad 50's and dusters were manned by ADA MOS folks. I seem to recall them and the 4.2 mortar guys being attached to our battalion - the 4 deuces actually being redesignated as E and F batteries. The smaller mortars were always infantry, as I recall, but other divisions may have handled things differently.
|
|
|
|
Post by prospero on Sept 5, 2012 8:14:25 GMT -8
Yup, TC, they sure do. Can you imagine what it was like back in the 40's when they had 8 inch towed? Man, those must have been real pigs to play with. |
|
|
|
Post by tankcommander on Sept 5, 2012 18:55:48 GMT -8
We've got one of those in our local military museum. It's pretty awesome, but to say it would be cumbersome to drag that thing around, and set it up is a gross understatement. Hell, it takes 4 guys just to load the bullet.  How many guns are in a battery? We had some 2/27 FA, 155mm SPs, and 8 inch SPs in our Brigade that ran around with us. Yeah, artillery and naval guns may throw those shells a long way, and get a bigger boom on the other end, but there's something to be said for a high velocity rifle that can shoot a 2 foot DU dart, with pretty much pin point accuracy, at over 5,000 fps.... That's twice as fast as a 30-06. |
|
|
|
Post by tripleo on Sept 6, 2012 4:17:34 GMT -8
Generally speaking, six guns to a battery plus the FDC, XO and other support people. Some heavy artillery had just 4 guns to a battery, though, depending on where they were located. Two guns is considered a platoon. Normally four batteries to a battalion, but that would vary from time to time.
In Vietnam the 1st had three 105 battalions, the 1/5, 1/7 and 2/33. A combination of sp and towed. The 8/6 had 3 155 batteries, two sp and one towed, and the 8 inch battery. There was a lot of moving in and out of other AO's though, with various artillery opcon to different divisions or brigades as the need arose. The 1/15 (or was it 3/15?) was a strictly heavy arty battalion under Field Force control but opcon to the 1st to provide support for base defense and limited general fire.
1 105 battalion was assigned to each infantry brigade along with one 155 battery, which was sometimes split into 2 or 3 parts to move to the hot spots. The 8 inchers were general support and didn't do a lot of moving around.
|
|
. Built by the Oliver company back in the 40's. I guess the army figured if the straps broke and it dropped from the chopper, it wouldn't be a great loss 
On the plus side, they were very accurate all the way out their max range and no one said a word if we pushed them far beyond their listed sustained rate of fire. The legs loved us. 
