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Post by 101ABN on Aug 21, 2005 9:59:18 GMT -8
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Post by Sailor on Aug 21, 2005 17:22:08 GMT -8
Even if Al Zarcoward's messages turn out to be authentic I doubt Bin Laden is stupid enough to try.
This turd has been laying low since the Tora Bora operation. He has a safe base of operation up in those mountains with thousands of supporters fanatically loyal to him. I don't see him placing himself in harm's way unless there is some strategic advantage so important to him that it outweighs all other considerations.
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Post by 101ABN on Aug 21, 2005 18:46:21 GMT -8
Here's a scenario that might make it feasable...
Suppose his health is failing, as has been rumored more than once.
Much better to die facing the enemy like a soldier of Islam than to die holed up in cave like a wounded dog.
Even an asshole like BinLaden has that much honor, and his martyrdom would fuel the cause for the next generation.
His arrival might also spur a migration of would-be jihadis to Iraq to fight alonside their hero.
(Roll the daisycutters, please.)
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Post by Remey688 on Aug 22, 2005 6:08:28 GMT -8
Even if Al Zarcoward's messages turn out to be authentic I doubt Bin Laden is stupid enough to try. This turd has been laying low since the Tora Bora operation. He has a safe base of operation up in those mountains with thousands of supporters fanatically loyal to him. I don't see him placing himself in harm's way unless there is some strategic advantage so important to him that it outweighs all other considerations. Sailor, these folks are more dangeous than most. they're are not affraid of dying! |
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Post by Husky23 on Aug 22, 2005 7:06:50 GMT -8
Even if Al Zarcoward's messages turn out to be authentic I doubt Bin Laden is stupid enough to try. This turd has been laying low since the Tora Bora operation. He has a safe base of operation up in those mountains with thousands of supporters fanatically loyal to him. I don't see him placing himself in harm's way unless there is some strategic advantage so important to him that it outweighs all other considerations. Sailor, these folks are more dangeous than most. they're are not affraid of dying! While I agree with your general conclusion Remey, OBL also must recognize his position as the spiritual leader of this whole terrorist’s movement, and the loss, even through a glorious martyrdom in Iraq could very well be viewed as not only a strategic victory for the coalition, but as well a significant tactical command loss of their highest leader. Al Quaeda and other terrorist organizations have really taken it in the nose on leaders these past few years, and the sheep are somewhat disorganized. Either way – kill the bastard, and keep killing the C&C of the groups. |
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Post by 101ABN on Aug 22, 2005 20:35:02 GMT -8
Either way – kill the bastard, and keep killing the C&C of the groups. Can't make the sonsabitches too dead for me!. |
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Post by dustdevil28 on Aug 23, 2005 1:49:46 GMT -8
What I don't get is why would he travel to Iraq to fight in some valient suicide charge or bombing when there are Soldiers for him to attack in Afganistan? Plus a attack in Afganistan resulting in martyrdom might stir the seeds of rebellion there and cause more concern in the American public.
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Post by Sailor on Aug 24, 2005 16:25:15 GMT -8
Even if Al Zarcoward's messages turn out to be authentic I doubt Bin Laden is stupid enough to try. This turd has been laying low since the Tora Bora operation. He has a safe base of operation up in those mountains with thousands of supporters fanatically loyal to him. I don't see him placing himself in harm's way unless there is some strategic advantage so important to him that it outweighs all other considerations. Sailor, these folks are more dangeous than most. they're are not affraid of dying! "Not afraid of dying" is not the same as stupid Remey. Bin Laden is better educated than most of them, his position as figurehead makes him unique which I am certain he is aware of. He may be willing to die for his cause, but that doesn't mean he will sell his life cheaply. He will want his death to be as "meaningful" as he can arrange it. This is why I am hoping he runs foul of a special forces team which will make his end as unspectacular as possible. Rex, reports from Debka and other news outlets not withstanding I am still of the opinion that he is likely in Iran and has been since about 6 months or so after Tora Bora for exactly the reasons you surmise. The last time we saw video of him he appeared better groomed and dressed than we might expect were he still up in Afghan or Paki goat herd territory. He also appeared (to me anyway) a bit more gaunt and without many of the hand gestures we had seen in earlier tapes. Whether from pain or lack of energy I couldn't say. And I freely admit those are just my perceptions and may just be wishful thinking. If he has some of the medical conditions we were told of he may very well require dialysis and other treatments hard to come by in some goatherder village. And if he is dying (as we all hope and pray) he may be planning to go out "with a BANG" and make his end a "heroic" one for his followers. But I don't see him trying to slip into Iraq where he runs the very real risk of being betrayed for the big payday, or simply "picked up" by some fortunate patrol before he is ready to "go." |
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Post by Sailor on Aug 24, 2005 16:25:57 GMT -8
Either way – kill the bastard, and keep killing the C&C of the groups. Can't make the sonsabitches too dead for me!. Roger that guys. |
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Post by tits on Aug 24, 2005 18:53:25 GMT -8
to those "godly" "spiritual" leaders who misuse the Qur'an to spread the doctrine of hate, murder, and suicide.
The toxicologist in me thinks that it is time for a well placed tailored bug. Playing God is a very dangerous thing. But assassination of spiritual leaders is too. However, if these people were to contract "bird flu" or "ebola" that had been tweeked to bond to their specific DNA, it would be just a deadly as a well placed round from 800 yards without the fingerprint.
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Post by Sailor on Aug 25, 2005 16:48:59 GMT -8
to those "godly" "spiritual" leaders who misuse the Qur'an to spread the doctrine of hate, murder, and suicide. That remark by Robertson is as wrong as a "fatwa" by an Islamic Cleric to commit murder in my view Dave. It makes him (and by connection us) no "better" than those we claim to stand against. More dangerous I think Dave. Assassination is a bad habit to get into, especially for us because for one reason or another we just cannot seem to get the "job" done quietly and without being discovered even when successful. We are bigger fucking clutzes when it comes to this "James Bond" shit than Gomer Pyle was as a Marine. Our standing in the world is none too high right now. Picture what it would be like even among our friends when word got around that we "arranged" for Fiedel Gomez or Ayatolla Kockamamy to come down with a terminal case of ebola or jock itch or some other biological weapon. Weapons that coincidentally we have sworn never to use. And yes, I've had similar thoughts and dreams of what the world could become if a dozen or so key figures suddenly passed from the scene along with their governments or organizations. Take care shipmate. |
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Post by Husky23 on Aug 25, 2005 17:52:50 GMT -8
I agree Sailor. But, I must admit sometimes...boy, oh, boy...sometimes, I have those day dreams.
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Post by jaber1 on Aug 26, 2005 2:56:05 GMT -8
to those "godly" "spiritual" leaders who misuse the Qur'an to spread the doctrine of hate, murder, and suicide. That remark by Robertson is as wrong as a "fatwa" by an Islamic Cleric to commit murder in my view Dave. It makes him (and by connection us) no "better" than those we claim to stand against. More dangerous I think Dave. Assassination is a bad habit to get into, especially for us because for one reason or another we just cannot seem to get the "job" done quietly and without being discovered even when successful. We are bigger fucking clutzes when it comes to this "James Bond" shit than Gomer Pyle was as a Marine. Our standing in the world is none too high right now. Picture what it would be like even among our friends when word got around that we "arranged" for Fiedel Gomez or Ayatolla Kockamamy to come down with a terminal case of ebola or jock itch or some other biological weapon. Weapons that coincidentally we have sworn never to use. And yes, I've had similar thoughts and dreams of what the world could become if a dozen or so key figures suddenly passed from the scene along with their governments or organizations. Take care shipmate. I agree, Sailor. The pulpit hate-mongers are now being isolated [as far as they can be] and removed from U.K. The problem, of course, is that it will go underground. Regarding a take-out, to me that is how Saddam should have been handled but, you are right: it needs someone to do it correctly and with no come back even if the hitter gets picked up. As for bio-weapons, one of the last things I read on THC was a 'conspiracy theory' attributed to a certain Captain Riley with regard to Gulf War Syndrome, DU munitions and bio-/chemo-treatment of men and materiel. I sincerely hope that it is just another con-theory but, reading the link to the Riley arguments, I was perturbed by the symptoms described because I exhibit several of them. While I can discount most due to my lifestyle and age, the persistent rash in particular is most disturbing. "*U.S. Troops Inoculated Before Going to Bosnia Are Coming Down With the Same Symptoms* (Slide Shown) Why does this picture appear in the paper? They are inoculating all the troops going to Bosnia. I am just now starting to get reports from the troops in Bosnia that some of them now have the characteristic rash, which is a cardinal clinical sign of the Gulf War Illness. Its the only sign you can see at this early stage, until they start losing weight, their hair, and start aging. Many people come to me when they discover that they have this rash. It's a sign of biological and chemical warfare." I have traveled this area extensively, including former and present U.S. war zones, and have never had inoculations from a military source, but this thing started up in 2003 after an extended stay in Kuwait. Skin quacks in three countries [here and Europe] cannot explain what it is or give me anything to get rid of it. I keep it under reasonable control by showering three times a day but it is a damned irritation in all senses of the word. I hate coincidences that come as close as this  |
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Post by Sailor on Aug 27, 2005 11:35:41 GMT -8
I agree, Sailor. The pulpit hate-mongers are now being isolated [as far as they can be] and removed from U.K. The problem, of course, is that it will go underground. Good afternoon Jaber. A question regarding the proposal to deport extremist clerics - A threat to "Cite" Britain for human rights violations if she follows through with the deportations was made by some UN Official, a "Manfred" someone or another. How is this threat being taken by you folks? Assassination of Hussein was considered by many, attempted by some, and all failed. His personal security cordon was just too tight, and the use of surgically altered body doubles made any attempt problematical at best. The CIA has never been much good at pulling off "wet work," at least since the 1950s, reputation and rumors not withstanding. Ian Fleming was a Brit afterall, not an American. KGB and the East German agency was always better at that, and even they were usually only semi-competent though they did come up with some imaginative ways to "remove" the target, the poison pellet injecting umbrella comes to mind. There is something to this "Gulf War Syndrome," I agree. What it is is a good question. Whether or not any traveler from the Americas or Europe to the region runs a risk of picking up something that won't go away or not, or what vectors might be involved are all still (after 14 years) being discussed and ideas being thrown around. Some claim it results from exposure to chemical or bioweapon agents, but there are vets and travelers who were (so far as can be determined) never exposed. Others think that exposure to the high levels of hydrocarbons in the atmosphere in 1991 from the oil fires the Iraqis started could be a cause, but that's not the case today. Some of the better guesses include disease organisms spread by the ubiquitous sand fleas and flys. Disease oganisms that the locals have a tolerance for but folks like you or I would not. One other guess (and maybe the best) is that some combination of vaccines and exposure to disease might screw up the immune systems in some, the necessary combination could vary with the individual. Tittus has the medical background to better discuss this, I was an intel and security guy. Take care. |
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Post by jaber1 on Aug 27, 2005 15:11:33 GMT -8
I agree, Sailor. The pulpit hate-mongers are now being isolated [as far as they can be] and removed from U.K. The problem, of course, is that it will go underground. Good afternoon Jaber. A question regarding the proposal to deport extremist clerics - A threat to "Cite" Britain for human rights violations if she follows through with the deportations was made by some UN Official, a "Manfred" someone or another. How is this threat being taken by you folks? Hi there, Sailor. I trust that you and Mrs Sailor are well. I must read up on that one - I haven't seen it - and I wonder if the same person is threatening the French for those they have just ejected. Then I'll speak to my family in U.K to see if they are even aware of the 'threat'. Personally, and with concurrence of some family I spoke with a few days ago, provided the law is written properly such that only those genuinely spewing 'hate speech' and advocating 'insurrection' are removed, I will fully support it. I wouldn't want some village Vicar to get defrocked after having a touch too much communion sherry. On that basis, anyone including the U.N. [regardless of my support for the Institution] can take a hike. SUNDAY EDIT: I pulled up the reports on the new "unacceptable behaviours" and note that Manfred Nowak, special rapporteur on torture, is concerned about deportations to countries with poor humans rights records - but this is already part of the deportment assessment process so it seems to me that he is just scratching for something to say. It is Amnesty International that is bitching about violations of human rights and International obligations. Fine, let them shout - they will get a chance to represent their case during the appeal or judicial review of those banned. Regarding the list I have one query and that is on the scope of the word "justify" in the item: "-- foment, justify or glorify terrorist violence in the furtherance of particular beliefs" No problem with the other two but 'justify' - without clarification - could be badly abused because the word 'beliefs' is ambiguous. They either need to insert the word 'religious' before 'beliefs' or provide some other clarification on its scope in a secular context. Failing this it could be applied to me, for example, were I to say to you on this board that "I believe that the insurgent shot a soldier in Iraq because another soldier killed his mother". www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en/home/news/press_releases/tackling_terrorism.htmlEND EDIT: Yes, this is what I put it down to for the first month or three, but two years on would suggest more than that - unless the bugs were radioactive  . I haven't had any shots for years. I also considered some form of stress reaction, but the Doc tells me all my systems are in great shape despite the abuse I heap upon them. I'm going to retire next year - certainly from the travelling - and I am more afraid of what that slow down will do to me. And you, sir. |
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