Post by tits on Aug 27, 2005 17:42:02 GMT -8
robertfollette said:
jaber1 said:
Assassination of Hussein was considered by many, attempted by some, and all failed. His personal security cordon was just too tight, and the use of surgically altered body doubles made any attempt problematical at best.
The CIA has never been much good at pulling off "wet work," at least since the 1950s, reputation and rumors not withstanding. Ian Fleming was a Brit after all, not an American.
KGB and the East German agency was always better at that, and even they were usually only semi-competent though they did come up with some imaginative ways to "remove" the target, the poison pellet injecting umbrella comes to mind.
As for bio-weapons, one of the last things I read on THC was a 'conspiracy theory' attributed to a certain Captain Riley with regard to Gulf War Syndrome, DU munitions and bio-/chemo-treatment of men and materiel.
I sincerely hope that it is just another con-theory but, reading the link to the Riley arguments, I was perturbed by the symptoms described because I exhibit several of them. While I can discount most due to my lifestyle and age, the persistent rash in particular is most disturbing.
"*U.S. Troops Inoculated Before Going to Bosnia Are Coming Down With the Same Symptoms*
(Slide Shown) Why does this picture appear in the paper? They are inoculating all the troops going to Bosnia. I am just now starting to get reports from the troops in Bosnia that some of them now have the characteristic rash, which is a cardinal clinical sign of the Gulf War Illness. Its the only sign you can see at this early stage, until they start losing weight, their hair, and start aging.
Many people come to me when they discover that they have this rash. It's a sign of biological and chemical warfare."
I have traveled this area extensively, including former and present U.S. war zones, and have never had inoculations from a military source, but this thing started up in 2003 after an extended stay in Kuwait. Skin quacks in three countries [here and Europe] cannot explain what it is or give me anything to get rid of it. I keep it under reasonable control by showering three times a day but it is a damned irritation in all senses of the word. I hate coincidences that come as close as this
There is something to this "Gulf War Syndrome," I agree. What it is is a good question. Whether or not any traveler from the Americas or Europe to the region runs a risk of picking up something that won't go away or not, or what vectors might be involved are all still (after 14 years) being discussed and ideas being thrown around.
Some claim it results from exposure to chemical or bioweapon agents, but there are vets and travelers who were (so far as can be determined) never exposed. Others think that exposure to the high levels of hydrocarbons in the atmosphere in 1991 from the oil fires the Iraqis started could be a cause, but that's not the case today.
Some of the better guesses include disease organisms spread by the ubiquitous sand fleas and flys. Disease oganisms that the locals have a tolerance for but folks like you or I would not.
One other guess (and maybe the best) is that some combination of vaccines and exposure to disease might screw up the immune systems in some, the necessary combination could vary with the individual.
Tittus has the medical background to better discuss this, I was an intel and security guy.
Take care.
Assassination, regardless of a lone gunner or a plot has done more to destabilize than succeed. My comment concerning Robertson and Bio agents was meant as an insult against those who are insisting that we had alternatives to the Iraqi war to remove Saddam. While I have asked since before the war what the end-game was to be, I cannot see any alternative to boots on the ground when we destabilize a government.
I am a Gulf War Syndrome patient. I nearly died from the inoculations. I met a man my age the other day who was a crew chief on a Spooky in Vietnam. Suddenly about a year ago he began to lose weight, had explosive diarrhea, began to suffer terrible neuropathy, and ended up in a wheel chair. The VA has ran him through the ringer and can not find a causality for his sudden degenerating health. In fact we were in Vietnam during the same time 1971-1972, but he did not continue with service.
Anyway, when we began to compare symptoms, we matched almost to a tee.
Now jaber, here is the news. Captain Riley was a USA nurse in the Gulf War who became ill with a mysterious illness about 28 months after she returned home. I was a civilian toxicologist with the US Army Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine from 1990-2001. In February 1991 I was a USNR (SELRES) on active duty in San Diego when I received order for Riyadh Saudi Arabia for April. In late February I was given 15 inoculations over a 2 day period. This was because the US military practices prophylactic medicine for all deploying troops. These inoculations include everything from indigenous virals (flu, dengi, or whatever) to specific agents.
In 1984-86 the State Department sold Saddam Hussein a series of biowarfare agents with the intent to guard against the Soviets from moving out of Afghanistan into Iraq. This agent known as BZK was developed in 1972 and refined in 1977 by a USAF team at Wright Patterson AFB. Like all biowarfare agents, an antibody vaccine was developed along side of the agent.
Now the kicker, of the 720,000 veterans who have been ill and nearly 50,000 have died with GWS, 97% are of northern European heritage. I became in 1994 and by 1999 had undergone my second cancer surgery. By 2001 I was down to 148 pounds and on a 2 hour daily IV of anti-virals and some very harsh medications. I was headed to a wheelchair for early MS symptoms. My doctors did not expect me to live to Christmas. Fortunately, as a civilian government employee I was able to avoid the VA and to get evaluated by doctors Cox and Carrigan of Mayo Clinic as well as Dr. Joseph Brewer of St. Luke's in Kansas City. All of these doctors are recognized experts in infectious diseases.
By chance, shear chance, these doctors tested my blood for a little known blood born virus, that lies dormant in anyone who has had chickenpox or roseola. In 1989, a co-virus was detected in the blood of AIDS patients, in 1998 that same virus was detected in 100% of the brain lesions of MS patients. This virus is not contagious but once reactivated is deadly. Unlike HIV that destroys the b-cell activity (those leukocytes that recognize an invading agent) this virus impairs and eventually kills the nK-t cell (natural killer cell that destroys the invading agent). The virus is triggered by a severe jolt to the immune system such as receiving 15 shots in two days. The virus is Human Herpes Virus #6.
Here is where the whole issue gets tricky. The virus attacks two specific proteins that regulate the formation of the nk-t cell. Those proteins are only found in people of northern European heritage. Of the 700,000 GWS and post service veterans, nearly 63% were reservist. The UK has done more to identify the cause of the illness, yet they have not published any papers on the detection of HHV6 or not.
My doctors, my colleagues at CHPPM, and I theorize that: the median age of the reservist ill with GWS is 38. Most received at least 6 inoculations. The majority received the BZK series. We theorize that the inoculations combined with the physiological stress of deployment and the age of the reservist gave rise to a release of HHV6. That those veterans who did not have the resources to check for this virus have suffered permanent damage to their immune system. Most will be diagnoses with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or MS and be left to the care of the medical community until a more opportune disease (cancer or pneumonia) takes them.
Sorry for the ramble, I have studied this and studied this. I am sick of the way the US DOD has responded by insisting that it was an exposure to Sarin Gas. As a toxicologist and a patient, I can assure you that Sarin gas exposure does not produce these symptoms. Also, depleted uranium and radiation exposure does not fit the symptoms either. One of my many hats was as radiation safety officer. I have been extensively trained in the safe handling and remediation of radiation sources. I was also a trained unexploded ordnance safety officer specializing in chemical and radiological weapons. I know DU and have been watching the UN debates with much interest.
So much for the perspective from a PG GWS veteran. (PG = Pre geriatric)