jaber

[tits]

I recently did an exhaustive study on the influence of Judaism on modern life. One aspect led to the number of German Jews from the 18th and 19th Century who took up the social causes. Lenin, Marx, and several of the Scottish/English socialist got their start from the writings of German Jewish scholars.

I was started to learn just how close the UK came to going socialist during the dark days of WWI. According to one source, the war ministry had to keep several division home from the war just to keep the socialist movement in check. This explains why the Ulster and IRA gained such a movement and why the socialist movement has so much influence today.

You remind me of someone with a strong socialist family history. Could you send some information on the 1915-1918 movement?

[jaber1]

tits said:

I recently did an exhaustive study on the influence of Judaism on modern life. One aspect led to the number of German Jews from the 18th and 19th Century who took up the social causes. Lenin, Marx, and several of the Scottish/English socialist got their start from the writings of German Jewish scholars.

I was started to learn just how close the UK came to going socialist during the dark days of WWI. According to one source, the war ministry had to keep several division home from the war just to keep the socialist movement in check. This explains why the Ulster and IRA gained such a movement and why the socialist movement has so much influence today.

You remind me of someone with a strong socialist family history. Could you send some information on the 1915-1918 movement?

Socialist? I can hear my Grandparents laughing wildly

I am old but not that old to be able to give you a first-hand rendition, and I wasn't sure which side you wanted so I took this from Ferguson; Empire; Page 329:

"At noon on Easter Monday, 1916, a thousand or so extreme Irish nationalists led by the poet Patrick Pearse and the socialist James Connolly marched into Dublin and occupied selected public buildings, notably the huge General Post Office, where Pearse proclaimed an Irish Republic."

As an aside, there is a good film on this called "Michael Collins" (1996) with Liam Neeson, Julia Roberts, Aidan Quinn and John Kenney as 'Patrick Pearse'. By all accounts a reasonable portrayal of part of Collins' life, but very much muted in respect of the real carnage of the times.

"After three days of fierce but futile fighting in which British artillery inflicted substantial damage on the city centre, the rebels surrendered. This was plainly an act of treason - the rebels had asked and received German guns - and the initial British response was harsh: the leading conspirators were quickly executed, the badly wounded James Connolly having to be propped up in a chair to be shot."

After the war the Black and Tans - former soldiers - were deployed to eradicate militant republicanism that had now formed under Sinn Fein and its military wing, the Irish Republican Army.

"But as would happen so often in the period, the British lacked the stomach for repression. When the Black and Tans opened fire on the crowd at a Gaelic football match at Croke Park [also in the film] there was almost as much revulsion in England as in Ireland."

The partition came in 1920 and by 1921 - with dead approaching 1,400 - the British caved and made a deal. While Lloyd George and following governments kept both parts in the Empire for a time, the south gained its full independence in 1948.

The web is littered with much more on Pearse, Connolly, Collins, Sinn Fein [not involved with the Rising, apparently] and the other leaders and movements.

An interesting point I found was that Sinn Fein was almost bankrupt until it received a surge of membership directly as a result of the killing of the Rising leaders.

On the British Socialism side try these and see what you find:

www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/History-of-British-Socialism

www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/socialism.htm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_British_Socialism

I guess you have already looked at the Glasier papers.

[tits]

but really questioned the "Hollywood v fact".

No I have read the Glasier papers. I shall endeavor to do so.

I was interested from a personal perspective. During all my travels I never visited Scotland nor was in the UK long enough to get a flavor of the politics. What I have seen has been through acquaintances and the THC.

Of the THC crowd, the poster known as Ken has been wonderful. He has offered some excellent insight and personal perspectives on some of the hot issues. The others (Scotish, ESB (a.k.a. Chiswickbitters), hayek, kai, and a couple of others have used the forum to cast stones. Even during serious questions the response usually came down to name calling of our current Administration. However, Chiswick did offer some insight once that he was raised in Belfast and witnessed first hand some of the war crimes of the 1980s. His father and grandfather were socialist and he even stated that they were not radical enough. Chiswick is a land surveyor who played football in college, has two daughters and is around 42 years old.

I have always enjoyed meeting people and exploring their perspectives on the world. Too often we Americans, the French, and the Russians have been a bit arrogant about our position in the world. However, I am quickly turned off by those people who chant hate for hates sake. I left the THC pages when the following Churchill quote became apparent.

"A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject." Winston Churchill (1954)

Thank you for the leads, I shall follow them.