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Post by bounce on May 7, 2006 8:15:49 GMT -8
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Post by MrDoublel on May 7, 2006 19:49:48 GMT -8
2 sites I won't be going to.
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Post by bounce on May 7, 2006 20:02:24 GMT -8
2 sites I won't be going to. YOU don't NEED to be reminded the way some others around here do. It wasn't intended for your "education" about what we face. I'd bet money you get it better than anyone else here. I think that suggesting civilian trials and life sentences is absurd in light of this enemy. |
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Post by FightingFalcon on May 7, 2006 20:03:56 GMT -8
I'm going to say this one more time....Bob...if you question my loyalty to the War on Terror, I'm seriously going to start getting angry.
I don't want our political differences to destroy whatever friendship we have left. But if you keep making personal attacks like that, on such a sensative issue to me, I will start making comments that I know I'm going to regret.
You have no idea the hatred I have for terrorists. You have no idea how I felt on 11 September and how I can't watch videos/look at pictures from that day without crying. You have no idea how proud I felt on my graduation from Field Training, because I knew that one day I would be able to fight against those who harmed my country.
Don't ever question my loyalty to this war. Ever.
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Post by MrDoublel on May 8, 2006 3:07:52 GMT -8
Perhaps I was a little short in my response. Just the thought of what those Pigs did infuriates me. And you're right Bob, there are those who need the occasional reminder, sad as that is. I don't feel like you were directing that towards me or FF but to the general public. Actually it's that pack of Peanut Counters over at THC that need the constant reminding.
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Post by FightingFalcon on May 8, 2006 5:23:16 GMT -8
Trust me, this post was meant for me.
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Post by Husky23 on May 8, 2006 5:27:17 GMT -8
I think we need a "Kiss and Make-up room"  |
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Post by bounce on May 8, 2006 6:22:19 GMT -8
Trust me, this post was meant for me. Well, I'll tell you what James... Half this country doesn't "get it." Damn sure, OVER HALF OUR CONGRESS doesn't either. When I hear the kind of crap I hear out of people these days (and it isn't just YOU, I assure you) about how we need to treat these POWs with kindness and understanding I just about want to vomit. In the first place, when we happen to capture these sub-human pieces of shit, they shouldn't be referred to as POWs. They haven't earned the RIGHT to be classified in that manner and what's in these videos explains why (IMO). That's why I posted these links here. Secondly, if we DO happen to get our hands on them (assuming they don't get the chance to go out Klingon style) we need to use the Jack Bauer approach to information extraction, not the ACLU approved approach. Lawyers and a sense of "guilt" are the last thing we need. We need RESULTS, not hand-wringing, whining and weakness. Third, you are right in many things you've said about the ROE used today. It enrages me that this country has allowed itself to veer SO FAR LEFT over the past 60 years. It isn't "just you." It's the steady Leftist incrementalism that I have seen. We need ROE, but it shouldn't have to be approved by the ACLU first! Today's "republicans" are farther Left than yesterday's democrats. Bush is farther Left than freakin' Zell Miller for crying out loud. FDR didn't stop the execution of spies and Truman dropped NUKES! Yet in today's world, we need to understand that Moussaoui's childhood was troubled and the word "nukes" brings up nightmarish images that rank up there with those of Halliburton and "big oil." In a run-off election today between Zell Miller and Bush, by golly, I might be inclined to choose Zell Miller! I'm not kidding! That entire Left-shift mental process is what pisses me off. I see it in the ROE, I see it in Congress, I see it in the media, I see it in the schools and I'm hearing you repeat it. When I argue with YOU, it's the "message" I rail against. AND, it's the fact that these ideas DO NOT WORK. They fail every time they're tried, yet over half this country doesn't seem to even realize what's happening. You are only one voice, but I can hear the words of Jay Bennish coming out of your mouth. It's that mentality I rail against and sometimes we need a shocker to bring us back to reality. That's why I posted these links here. Half this country needs to see them. |
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Post by bounce on May 8, 2006 6:34:23 GMT -8
You know, the more I think about it, the series 24 bears a striking resemblance to my point.
On the one hand, we have terrorists who abide no rules and do everything in their power to bring us down. (the two links above)
On the other hand, we have a bureaucracy supposedly designed to protect this country that in all reality manages to step on its own dick most of the time and quite literally PREVENTS our dealing with the threats we face.
Then, there's Jack Bauer. He wants "results" and does what it takes to protect this country.
Yes, these people are actors in a play - I get that. However, the scenarios mirror certain mentalities I see everyday in our society.
We have terrorists, we have people who are all ate up with rules and actually get in the way, and we have people who get results.
60 years ago, we had a lot more "Jack Bauer" types in our government than we have now and it's a damn good thing we did!
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Post by AmericanPride on May 9, 2006 21:24:18 GMT -8
So - what's your solution Bob?
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Post by bounce on May 10, 2006 6:16:57 GMT -8
So - what's your solution Bob? The mentality of the American people needs to be fundamentally changed. If I made changes, only to have the ACLU undo them, what good would it do? As much as I have disagreed with FDR's "socialist" policies in the past, look at what he did as a WAR TIME President and compare that to where we are now? He created internment camps. Were there innocent people caught up in them? Most certainly. Were potential spies caught up in them as well? Most certainly! However, now, the Left is falling all over themselves apologizing for that. It was WAR. The only person man enough to set up internment camps now is Sheriff Joe. He had a REAL domestic spy program. He didn't limit himself to listening to overseas phone conversations either. The Left is trying to impeach Bush for something that isn't even domestic spying! The Left whines about our intel being so bad, then presumes to cut off our ability to collect it. Spies were executed under his watch. Now, calling spies, "SPIES" is considered a stretch and rather than execute them after a military tribunal, we give them life after civilians consider their unfortunate childhood. Now, I ask you to compare yesterday's DEMOCRAT mentality to what we have today. The politics of weakness have slowly but surely taken hold in this country. Today's Left is damn near communist and today's Right is Left of FDR (WAY LEFT). My solutions would be vast in number, but they all revolve around a central theme of taking the gloves off (as in WINNING). So, in short, any change I would make would quickly be undone by the politics of weakness and guilt. That bullshit is considered "enlightened," "educated" and "fair" in today's world. We seem to have forgotten that wars only end when one side completely decimates another. My changes would be made in an effort to do just that. As an aside... The words coming out of today's demokrats would have been considered treasonous sixty years ago. And the actions of Clinton and Gore (bad mouthing us to overseas audiences) would have been considered Sedition! That's how much we've changed. Falcon was right about another thing... America is its own worst enemy. When we undo ourselves (like we're doing now with our weak and leftist mentality) there is no help. |
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Post by FightingFalcon on May 10, 2006 6:39:51 GMT -8
I never thought I'd say this but......
Man, am I glad that we have a Supreme Court.
If not for the special circumstance of being president during World War II, FDR could have easily been impeached and thrown out of office for what he did. The alphabet soup programs (CCC, etc), Social Security, internment camps, domestic spying, etc. are all un-Constitutional.
Funny that you want to execute spies for spying on Americans but you actually ENCOURAGE spying on Americans by our own people. So the spying isn't what bothers you, but rather who does it?
As for internment camps - habeus corpus can be repealed if Congress allows it. Congress didn't do it during FDR's time and they haven't done it today.
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Post by AmericanPride on May 10, 2006 6:45:48 GMT -8
I like Andrew Jackson's mentality towards the Supreme Court: "John Marshal made the decision. Let him enforce it!"  |
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Post by bounce on May 10, 2006 6:54:32 GMT -8
Yeah, I know what you mean. Without them, we might still have private property and freedom of political speech rights. There might be laws protecting the unborn too.
God knows where all that would lead.
Was it Thomas Jefferson who worried that the Courts would overstep their authority and instead of interpreting the law would begin making law?
The way I see it, it was an excellent worry to have. It's happening before our very eyes.
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Post by FightingFalcon on May 10, 2006 6:57:36 GMT -8
"Yeah, I know what you mean. Without them, we might still have private property and freedom of political speech rights. There might be laws protecting the unborn too."
I hear you 100% on that Bob. While the Court has done some great things to uphold personal privacy in the face of an overbearing government, they have also made some really awful decisions.
The recent eminent domain ruling really, really pissed me off. Same with their allowing the McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Law, which is completely un-Constitutional. Not to say anything about the PATRIOT Act......
Regardless, I'm glad that they are there. Without them, we would be that much closer to tyranny.
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