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Post by cameron on May 19, 2006 18:52:44 GMT -8
If it's illegal immigration your against then why not just up the number of people allowed to come here so as to reduce the number of illegals trying to come here?
You can lie to yourself if you want Mario but not to me. I'm not holding it against you if that's how you feel that is legit but we can't have an honest dialogue until you do. It's not their legality it's the number of them that scares you.
It's your rhetoric that betrays you.
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Post by MARIO on May 19, 2006 21:24:12 GMT -8
For my friend Cameron. Hopefully this will disabuse you of your sentimental illusions regarding the illegal invaders.
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HISPANIC LEADERS SPEAK OUT!
Augustin Cebada, Brown Berets; "Go back to Boston! Go back to Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You are old and tired. Go on. We have beaten you. Leave like beaten rats. You old white people. It is your duty to die. Through love of having children, we are going to take over.
Richard Alatorre, Los Angeles City Council. "They're afraid we're going to take over the governmental institutions and other institutions. They're right. We will take them over. We are here to stay ."
Excelsior, the national newspaper of Mexico, "The American Southwest seems to be slowly returning to the jurisdiction of Mexico without firing a single shot."
Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez, University of Texas: "We have an aging white America. They are not making babies. They are dying. The explosion is in our population. I love it. They are shitting in their pants with fear. I love it."
Art Torres, Chairman of the California Democratic Party, "Remember 187--proposition to deny taxpayer funds for services to non-citizens--was the last gasp of white America in California."
Gloria Molina, Los Angeles County Supervisor, "We are politicizing every single one of these new citizens that are becoming citizens of this country. I gotta tell you that a lot of people are saying, "I'm going to go out there and vote because I want to pay them back."
Mario Obledo, California Coalition of Hispanic Organizations and California State Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare under Governor Jerry Brown, also awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Bill Clinton, "California is going to be a Hispanic state. Anyone who doesn't like it should leave."
Jose Pescador Osuna, Mexican Consul General , "We are practicing 'La Reconquista' in California."
Professor Fernando Guerra, Loyola Marymount University: "We need to avoid a white backlash by using codes understood by Latinos . . . "
Are these just the words of a few extremists? Consider that we could fill up many pages with such quotes. Also, consider that these are mainstream Mexican leaders.
THE U.S. VS MEXICO:
On February 15, 1998, the U.S. and Mexican soccer teams met at the Los Angeles Coliseum. The crowd was overwhelmingly pro-Mexican even though most lived in this country. They booed during the National Anthem and U.S. flags were held upside down. As the match progressed, supporters of the U.S. team were insulted, pelted with projectiles, punched and spat upon. Beer and trash were thrown at the U.S. players before and after the match. The coach of the U.S. team, Steve Sampson said, "This was the most painful experience I have ever had in this profession."
Did you know that immigrants from Mexico and other non-European countries can come to this country and get preferences in jobs, education, and government contracts? It's called affirmative action or racial privilege. The Emperor of Japan or the President of Mexico could migrate here and immediately be eligible for special rights unavailable for Americans of European descent. Recently, a vote was taken in the U.S. Congress to end this practice. It was defeated. Every single Democratic senator except Ernest Hollings voted to maintain special privileges for Hispanic, Asian and African immigrants. They were joined by thirteen Republicans. Bill Clinton and Al Gore have repeatedly stated that they believe that massive immigration from countries like Mexico is good. They have also backed special privileges for these immigrants.
Corporate America has signed on to the idea that minorities and third world immigrants should get special, privileged status. Some examples are Exxon, Texaco, Merrill Lynch, Boeing, Paine Weber, Starbucks and many more.
DID YOU KNOW?
Did you know that Mexico regularly intercedes on the side of the defense in criminal cases involving Mexican nationals? Did you know that Mexico has NEVER extradited a Mexican national accused of murder in the U.S. in spite of agreements to do so? According to the L.A. Times, Orange County, California is home to 275 gangs with 17,000 members, 98% of which are Mexican and Asian. How's your county doing?
According to a New York Times article dated May 19, 1994, 20 years after the great influx of legal immigrants from Southeast Asia, 30% are still on welfare compared to 8% of households nationwide. A Wall Street Journal editorial dated December 5, 1994 quotes law enforcement officials as stating that Asian mobsters are the "greatest criminal challenge the country faces." Not bad for a group that is still under 5% of the population.
Is education important to you? Here are the words of a teacher who spent over 20 years in the Los Angeles school system. "Imagine teachers in classes containing 30-40 students of widely varying attention spans and motivation, many of whom aren't fluent in English. Educators seek learning materials likely to reach the majority of students and that means fewer words and math problems and more pictures and multicultural references."
WHEN I WAS YOUNG:
When I was y oung, I remember hearing about the immigrants that came through Ellis Island. They wanted to learn English. They wanted to breath free. They wanted to become Americans. Now too many immigrants come here with demands. They demand to be taught in their own language. They demand special privileges--affirmative action. They demand ethnic studies that glorify their culture.
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Post by MARIO on May 19, 2006 21:31:34 GMT -8
If it's illegal immigration your against then why not just up the number of people allowed to come here so as to reduce the number of illegals trying to come here?
Umm, we've been debating THIS POINT to no end. OF COURSE we have a problem with the number of people who have and continue to invade our country. The fact that they are doing so illegally only exacerbates matters.
You can lie to yourself if you want Mario but not to me.
Oops, there's that condescension again. Don't play that game with me, Cameron.
I'm not holding it against you if that's how you feel that is legit but we can't have an honest dialogue until you do. It's not their legality it's the number of them that scares you.
Umm, it's both. Duh.
As for honest, you have yet to clearly explain WHY you so fervently advocate for this illegal invasion of our country. What exactly is in it for you? How does support of this invasion constitute adherence to your principles?
I'm still not getting it, my friend.
It's your rhetoric that betrays you.
Speak for yourself.
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Post by cameron on May 19, 2006 23:11:53 GMT -8
If it's illegal immigration your against then why not just up the number of people allowed to come here so as to reduce the number of illegals trying to come here?Umm, we've been debating THIS POINT to no end. OF COURSE we have a problem with the number of people who have and continue to invade our country. The fact that they are doing so illegally only exacerbates matters. Mario your objection really has nothing to do with the legalities involved. You would not care if it did seem to you as though we were being "invaded", now be honest. We have done nothing up to this point in time to even lift a finger to stop them from coming in or from getting a job once they are here, have we? It matters not at all that no one here personally gave their approval, we as a nation were in fact sending a message to these people. Now how many people do you suppose got up and left to never return to their favorite eatery when they realized the bus boy didn't speak any English? How many home owners made sure the contractor's laborers that put on the new edition to their home all had their papers? Or do you suppose they went with the guy that seemed to be able to do what they wanted for the least amount of money not really looking to close at who was putting up the dry wall? Here on Long Island as you are aware landscapers are every where. How many people checked to make sure the guy they hired only used documented labor? I could go on and on Mario, I hope you are starting to see my point. We the people of the United States are not a bunch of innocent bystanders who were let down by our politicians when it comes to this "invasion". We as a whole were in fact complicit in allowing these people in. Maybe not you or me personally but as a nation that really can't be denied, or do you? So the way I see it all the self righteous anger is misplaced. We created the problem and we can solve the problem in a way that is just and equitable to all. I've been on this issue myself since 911. I've said here what the heck is wrong with the government and why are they not doing something about border security? For crying out loud we are in a war that is existential in it's nature. They do not want to just pin prick us, but to fundamentally destroy us. Does no one understand that? This war we are in is for bloody real and the stakes are as high as they get. It seems to me like everyone is taking their eye of the real ball. That's how it seems from my perspective. I'm going to be so f-ing pissed when one of our cities is a glowing ember while you are running around mindlessly yelling the wetbacks are coming, the wetbacks are coming. I don't give a rats ass about a bunch of ignorant spics. We have people who should know better saying what to me is indefensible drivel. We are going to punish those Republicans for not doing what we want. We are in the middle of a freaking WAR! Do you really want a speaker Pelosi a majority leader Reid? Do you understand what that would mean? Do you know how many committees T. Kennedy would be in charge of? How about Kerry or Feingold, Durbin. Conyers came out this morning with an article entitled "No Rush To Impeachment". Our enemies mean to destroy us to you really think we can afford to take two years off to send a message? I hate compassionate conservatism(big gov Repub's) My concern before the war was judges. Since the war it's the war. Bush only needs to get one thing right and it's the most important thing that trumps everything else, THE WAR! Now Mario I know you are of Italian decent right? This is not to diminish you or the contributions of your forebears to our nation, but fundamentally this is an Anglo culture at it's core. I would recommend Winston Churchill's history of the English speaking peoples. I'm sorry but I have no fear of those silly and sometimes stupid wetbacks. They are about to be crushed. The Azatland or whatever they call themselves are about to feel the full force and furry of a people who do not take pity on those who will not submit. They don't scare me. If the country was 50/50 they would lose easily decisively and irretrievably. I fear them not at all, but there are those I do in fact fear. They have not taken their eye off the ball. You can lie to yourself if you want Mario but not to me.Oops, there's that condescension again. Don't play that game with me, Cameron. Mario you don't like what I have to say or the way I say it then to damn bad for you. I call it the way I see it. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong. Explain to me the error in reasoning or logic, convince me of the error of my ways so that I might repent and make atonement. I follow the light cast by my own conscience here Mario I really don't give a rats ass what the entire rest of the world thinks of my position it means nothing to me. I make up my own mind and am no ones lap dog. I'm an honest to goodness watch dog by my very nature, always have been. Fuck the spics I don't give a rats ass about them. We don't have time for this shit. Work something out don't burn down the whole house over this. I'm not holding it against you if that's how you feel that is legit but we can't have an honest dialogue until you do. It's not their legality it's the number of them that scares you.Umm, it's both. Duh. Oh really? So you would be all up in arms over 10 illegals? HONESTY, I SAID HONESTY Stop wasting my time. Duh? Does it hurt when you think? As for honest, you have yet to clearly explain WHY you so fervently advocate for this illegal invasion of our country. What exactly is in it for you? How does support of this invasion constitute adherence to your principles? I'm still not getting it, my friend. Every time you say something so stupid as "invasion" I want to grab you and shake you by your collar and say 'MARIO WE HAVE REAL PEOPLE WHO MEAN TO DO US HARM" for real. They don't happen to be some ignorant women who was so stupid and desperate to be here that her baby perished. They may be a problem but for me it amounts to a nuisance. Like swatting flys. We both want the same thing. SECURE BORDERS! Can you hear me now! I don't think what you want to do is viable politically or even capable of accomplishing our shared desire for secure borders. That is what divides you and I. You are more afraid of the spics, I am more afraid of the wogs. I've had my loyalty questioned over this, anyone who questions my loyalty someone needs to buy them a clue. Military men who have taken their eye off the ball. They need some hot tempered master sergeant to start kicking them in the pants. That's what I think. I'm tired I'm angry and I want to go drown some kittens now. Sorry for being rude. I don't need you to agree with me but for crying out loud see clearly where I am coming from. Only then will you be able to give me council. It's your rhetoric that betrays you.Speak for yourself. I always do Now excuse me I think I'm gonna go stick a puppy in the blender and make myself a milk shake out of it. I know it's my own fault I'm so bent out of shape but et tu Mario? |
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Post by bounce on May 20, 2006 4:11:05 GMT -8
If it's illegal immigration your against then why not just up the number of people allowed to come here so as to reduce the number of illegals trying to come here? Yeah, that sounds great! There is no need to come here illegally. We're issuing citizenship if you just come through the border. What the hell Cameron? Are you kidding? I do not "get" this at all Cameron. You're EXACTLY RIGHT! It's ONE of the reasons anyway. You're asking us to surrender our country under the threat of having to pay $10 for an apple. Besides the fact that we're already paying $20 for it now (when you consider the cost of prisons, loss of hospitals, clogged schools, crime and welfare), what kind of country do you think we'd have with 200,000,000 voting illegals here? 30 years from now, that's exactly what we'd be shoving down the throat of our kids and grandkids. Their numbers will grow geometrically. They could have a great life down in May-hee-co if they'd attack their own corruption with the same vigor that they're using to attack us. The notion that we're just "lucky sperm" for being born here is BS! They have a very wealthy nation. They're just squandering it. It's nothing but the path of least resistance. They find it easier to break our laws than STOP law-breaking their's! YOU GUYS WANT A GREAT LIFE DO YOU??? CREATE IT YOURSELF! Organize and attack your own corruption! Don't expect to export your corruption here! We're already "stocked-up" on that shit. |
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Post by bounce on May 20, 2006 4:20:57 GMT -8
Cameron, please explain to me your opinions of why black markets are illegal.
I'm quite certain you don't have a grasp of that one single concept.
You are confusing "Black-Markets" with "Free-Markets."
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Post by cameron on May 20, 2006 6:30:10 GMT -8
Cameron, please explain to me your opinions of why black markets are illegal. I'm quite certain you don't have a grasp of that one single concept. You are confusing " Black-Markets" with " Free-Markets." Hahahaha that's funny bounce Black markets by their very nature are free markets totally unregulated. |
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Post by bounce on May 20, 2006 6:55:44 GMT -8
Cameron, please explain to me your opinions of why black markets are illegal. I'm quite certain you don't have a grasp of that one single concept. You are confusing " Black-Markets" with " Free-Markets." Hahahaha that's funny bounce Black markets by their very nature are free markets totally unregulated. GOTCHA! See, you cannot even get that right. No wonder you are so backward on this issue. The markets DAMNED sure ARE regulated by law. And they're regulated for very good reasons. Black Markets are run by criminals who don't want to abide the law. That's the part you're not getting here. |
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Post by cameron on May 20, 2006 10:46:13 GMT -8
Hahahaha that's funny bounce Black markets by their very nature are free markets totally unregulated. GOTCHA! See, you cannot even get that right. No wonder you are so backward on this issue. The markets DAMNED sure ARE regulated by law. And they're regulated for very good reasons. Black Markets are run by criminals who don't want to abide the law. That's the part you're not getting here. Well the grass is cut the weeds have been assaulted and the have a good start on the hedges. Gotcha? Sorry Bounce I don't think so, a market is any exchange of goods or services. To the extent that a market is regulated it is less free. It's the fact that a black market is unregulated that makes it a free market. The free exchange of goods or services. The legal standing of those services does not effect the nature of the market. Going back outside to play now.  |
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Post by bounce on May 21, 2006 4:39:56 GMT -8
Well, there are clearly no need for laws in your world. There is a price and market for everything, I guess. Children, little girls, little boys, SLAVES, organs we take from people we kidnap and kill, stolen property, street drugs, etc. Hey, there's gotta be free trade, right? Now I see where you're going with this. Now I get it! How could anyone ever oppose Black Markets?  |
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Post by cameron on May 21, 2006 7:28:20 GMT -8
Well, there are clearly no need for laws in your world. There is a price and market for everything, I guess. Children, little girls, little boys, SLAVES, organs we take from people we kidnap and kill, stolen property, street drugs, etc. Hey, there's gotta be free trade, right? Now I see where you're going with this. Now I get it! How could anyone ever oppose Black Markets? Bounce? Come on! I'm not advacating for slavery or anything else. I'm just pointing out that the black market is a free market.I don't approve of black markets, I'm just pointing out a simple fact. |
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Post by bounce on May 21, 2006 7:37:10 GMT -8
Where do you draw the line?
Black Markets traffick in illegal shit. Labor is one of those things.
There is no way around this, but I'm getting sick of this subject anyway.
It's time for all of us to do what we have to do and meet at the ballot box.
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Post by cameron on May 21, 2006 7:40:37 GMT -8
Where do you draw the line? Black Markets traffick in illegal shit. Labor is one of those things. There is no way around this, but I'm getting sick of this subject anyway. It's time for all of us to do what we have to do and meet at the ballot box. I don't understand what your problem is here, is recognizing the simple fact that a black market is a free market in some way immoral? Recognizing that simple fact is not to advocate for black markets, it's just a recognition of a reality. |
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Post by bounce on May 21, 2006 9:01:18 GMT -8
If you are AGAINST Black Markets in this country, you're necessarily against illegal immigration.
If you're FOR Black Markets in this country, you're necessarily against American law.
Pick one. We already know the answer.
Black Markets are called BLACK for a reason.
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Post by cameron on May 21, 2006 9:14:19 GMT -8
If you are AGAINST Black Markets in this country, you're necessarily against illegal immigration. If you're FOR Black Markets in this country, you're necessarily against American law. Pick one. We already know the answer. Black Markets are called BLACK for a reason. You are trying to create a false dichotomy, I in no way shape or form support illegal activities period end of story. I want the border secured! In solving that problem I have said that we must address the issues involved realistically. If I don't think your solution will work or has no chance of being implemented in the real world why should I support it? What because I don't think people coming here in an attempt to escape poverty with a desire to build a better life for themselves have committed an unpardonable sin. I must be shunned and cast out of polite company? You don't know what I think, you just think you do. Going out to work on the yard. Enjoy your Sunday afternoon. (I'm back it's raining out) |
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