What if you aren't sorry?

[101ABN]

I didn't call you an unrepentant sinner

You called you an unrepentant sinner.

"I just find it the height of hypocrisy to pray to God for help and then go turn on my $2,000 computer. Or hop on my $10,000 motorcycle. Or put on my $50 jeans. "

If you were asking God for help with your finances after blowing your life's savings (or someone elses) on those things then you might be justified in feeling like a hypocrite.

Please... Take what I've offered you and learn from it

[FightingFalcon]

I don't see what's so hard about seeing what I'm trying to say here. Maybe you just don't want to see what I'm trying to say. Why is it so hard for people to admit that they're imperfect sinners? Are you afraid to admit that deep down you aren't 100% dedicated to God?

At least I'm honest about it.

[101ABN]

I'm not the one conflicted about my personal lifestyle choices.

I'm not the one asking for spiritual help on an internet board.

I'm not the one shopping for a softer easier religion that lets me do it the way I think it should be done.

Quit making it about me.

Absorb what I gave you.

Or leave it in the mud.

You choose.

No skin off my ass either way.

[Merceditas]

fightingfalcon said:

This is a question/problem that I've been dealing with for about 3-4 years now and it's causing me to move further and further away from religion. I started out being an extremely religious person to now, believing in God but more along the lines of Deism - that He created the universe but has very little power in it anymore. I believe that He might enable people to succeed but ultimately it is the individual him/herself who triumphs.

But anyway....that's a discussion for another time. This post concerns sinning and not feeling guilty about it. For example....drinking. I've had some really good memories of drinking with my friends that I am flat-out not sorry for. Even though getting drunk is a sin and I should ask for forgiveness, I don't want forgiveness. I enjoyed it and I don't think anything is wrong with it.

I feel bad that my sins were the reason that Jesus died but I can't bring myself to ask for forgiveness. I would be lying and God knows it. So even though there are other sins out there that I would like forgiveness for, I can't because there is at least one that I don't feel sorry for.

Surely there are sins out there that ya'll enjoy participating in and don't feel sorry for. I mean what's to feel sorry for about having a good time with your friends and enjoying life? Honestly?

I dunno...I still believe in God/Jesus and all that good stuff but I can't bring myself to ask God to forgive me for something I don't want to be forgiven for. I'm not looking for a justification of my lifestyle, just seeing if ya'll have any input. Or maybe I'm the only one out there who genuinely does not feel sorry about certain sins.

Lots of sins feel good, FF.

Being sorry for doing something that offends God doesn't mean you have to be sorry for enjoying what felt nice. There's nothing illicit in enjoying the good feelings that extramarital sex provides or drinking and having a good time.

The 'sorry' part is towards God for doing something that he didn't want you to do.

Not sure if I'm saying this right.

If you know God was disappointed and hurt because you broke one of His laws and you're sorry that you hurt him, that's all that matters, He'll forgive you.

My gooodness, in the Catholic faith, we understand that even if you're sorry that what you did will keep you from getting to Heaven, that's sufficient for God's forgiveness.

**After reading all the posts I should add, that God doesn't give you more than you can handle. He gave you free will. But we are all weak and give into temptations. Sometimes what we do wrong becomes habitual, especially things that we enjoy, they are hard habits to break. What matters is that you keep trying.

Many of us have played the same type of game you're playing, FF. It was St Augustine who said something like "I'll convert God, but not just yet." lol!

But none of us know when God has decided it's time to leave this Earth. Yet, He's All Merciful as well as All Just.

I wish you well, FF, with your struggles. Not sure if my 2cents will be helpful.

[jfree]

I think the way to think about it is this, drinking in moderation, like a beer or a glass of wine w/dinner is not the same, in fact a glass of wine can be good for you, but drinking to get drunk is to drink to lose control and damage your body, your body is a gift from god and to disrespect it is to disrespect him. No one comes to their faith knowing all and believing all, we learn over the years and begin to understand more in time, even in Catholicism your priest will tell you that feeling guilty is not a prerequisite for forgiveness.

I too partied in college, went to bars, got drunk and behaved in crazy ways, as you get older you realize that life isn't about the parties, the drinking, the bars.... but it is about the connections we share with our friends and family, it is about trying to leave the place alittle better than we found it, doing for others more than for ourselves and when you have kids, life becomes about them.

In matters of faith, like choosing which religion, it is about what is right in our heart, not about guilt, but about doing what is right because when we do what is right we feel better, we are happier and the stress falls away.

[peterd]

The choice a person makes and direction is going is between God and him/her. There is no middle person. God does not condem you, we do it to ourselves. If you feel guilty about something, than try to not to do it again. If you read a bible, than you know that we all are sinners. If you are a God fearing person and believe Christ Jesus, than you know that Jesus will forgive and the only thing you have to is ask and repeant. There is no ceremony which goes with it. I personally trying to stay from the word religion. The word religioin is being abused and used for many radical purposes. Each person's life style is a matter of choice. The road you choose to take can etiher help you or hurt you.

[twilly]

FF...Given your posts, it's doubtful you were ever a Catholic or, if you were, you slept through it all.

You're making excuses, fudging, wanting to have it your way, the pick and choose mere philosophy, the "revolt" of the 16th Century, and that declaration, "I can't lie to God"...LOL...that's the biggest crock of it all!

Even non-Christian believers know that no one can "lie to God"...unless, of course, he thinks he's "god" and therefore, self-proclaimed "gods" DO lie to "god"....they lie to themselves.

But....giving you the benefit of the doubt...that you, perhaps, haven't become THAT pompous....there are three things that lie to us: the world, the flesh, and the devil, and the devil lies to us through the world and through the flesh.

Nonetheless, even the devil knows he can't lie to God and he knows his days are numbered, but, misery loves company. The devil lied to Eve and to Adam and he lies to all of us all the time. He knows God will destroy his existence, his self-awareness and, because of this he's lying to all of us so he can prove before he's destroyed that he can be "like god", even though he knows what he can do is temporary, just as what we can do is merely temporary because this life is temporary and our flesh is temporary.

We have only one life, our time is short, and we either "make it" or we don't.

[cataracts]

fightingfalcon said:

This is a question/problem that I've been dealing with for about 3-4 years now and it's causing me to move further and further away from religion. I started out being an extremely religious person to now, believing in God but more along the lines of Deism - that He created the universe but has very little power in it anymore. I believe that He might enable people to succeed but ultimately it is the individual him/herself who triumphs.

But anyway....that's a discussion for another time. This post concerns sinning and not feeling guilty about it. For example....drinking. I've had some really good memories of drinking with my friends that I am flat-out not sorry for. Even though getting drunk is a sin and I should ask for forgiveness, I don't want forgiveness. I enjoyed it and I don't think anything is wrong with it.

I feel bad that my sins were the reason that Jesus died but I can't bring myself to ask for forgiveness. I would be lying and God knows it. So even though there are other sins out there that I would like forgiveness for, I can't because there is at least one that I don't feel sorry for.

Surely there are sins out there that ya'll enjoy participating in and don't feel sorry for. I mean what's to feel sorry for about having a good time with your friends and enjoying life? Honestly?

I dunno...I still believe in God/Jesus and all that good stuff but I can't bring myself to ask God to forgive me for something I don't want to be forgiven for. I'm not looking for a justification of my lifestyle, just seeing if ya'll have any input. Or maybe I'm the only one out there who genuinely does not feel sorry about certain sins.

Fighting Falcon,
Do you know for a fact that you are sinning?
When you drank a lot of booze, did you do it everyday for a month? Did you hurt your body beyond repair? Did you hurt someone while in a drinken stupor?

There is no sin in buying a $10,000 motorcycle or a $50.00 pair of bluejeans. Where did this attitude of yours come from? Certainly not in anything the Catholic Church taught you.

From what I have read of your posts, you don't know what a sin is. The best way to find out if you're sinning or not is to get out a copy of the Ten Commandments. Read over every Commandment including any explanatory information. From this you will know whether you have indeed committed a sin.

Your conscience will warn you if you are going to sin. This is an extremely helpful tool to use. However, there is one very important and very significant item concerning your conscience that you must know. It must be an "informed" conscience. Without your consciece being informed you won't know whether you are sinning or not.

Prayer is extremely inportant. Pray everyday. Say the rosary everyday. Without prayer you cannot please God.

Cataracts

[oneifbyland]

FF - if srinking in and of itself were sinful - then most Irish and Italian Catholics (I grew up in a large extended catholic family) would be in big trouble. I think you're narrowing your definitions too much. Having fun and drinking at a party are not sinful or even bad.

Becoming an alcoholic and ruining the life you were given or someone elses, driving drunk, using alcohol as an excuse to do actually bad things is wrong.

I don't remember any Commandment about not drinking.

[cataracts]

oneifbyland said:

FF - if srinking in and of itself were sinful - then most Irish and Italian Catholics (I grew up in a large extended catholic family) would be in big trouble. I think you're narrowing your definitions too much. Having fun and drinking at a party are not sinful or even bad.

Becoming an alcoholic and ruining the life you were given or someone elses, driving drunk, using alcohol as an excuse to do actually bad things is wrong.

I don't remember any Commandment about not drinking.

Oneifbyland.

There is no Commandment that says "thou shalt not drink", however,damaging your body would be a sin.

[Merceditas]

oneifbyland said:

FF - if srinking in and of itself were sinful - then most Irish and Italian Catholics (I grew up in a large extended catholic family) would be in big trouble. I think you're narrowing your definitions too much. Having fun and drinking at a party are not sinful or even bad.

Becoming an alcoholic and ruining the life you were given or someone elses, driving drunk, using alcohol as an excuse to do actually bad things is wrong.

I don't remember any Commandment about not drinking.

Perfect explanation.

[tliedel]

FF,

I've read all your posts here and the responses to them. From what I've read, I can tell you this...You're HUMAN. That means you WILL sin. You will have doubts. You will search. This is where you are at right now. You are searching for truth. However, from what I have read, you are searching in the dark without a guide. Thats a very dangerous situation to place yourself in. It is very easy to get lost in the dark without a guide. Justifying one's behavior becomes easy. If you justify long enough, you will actually believe it as truth. But God is no fool.

Remember that God's laws were not put in place to punish us, but rather to help us. Evey sin has negative consequences, in one form or another, including, and most importantly, distancing yourself from God.

We are ALL sinners. Anyone who says they are not, is a liar. There is only ONE man who walked the face of the earth and never sinned. Christ.

We all have sinned and we all will sin. That is human nature. God knows we are not perfect. Who better to know that than our Creator. He accepts you and all your faults. All He asks is that you accept Him. By doing so, you put the fate of your soul in His hands. Let Him be your guide.

Here's the most important thing to remember while you are searching. Your life here on earth is temporary, but eternity never ends. Where do you want to spend eternity? My advice is pray. Ask for guidance. Ask for understanding. If you pray long enough and are sincere enough, He will answer you.

[tits]

There is much wisdom there. We middle-agers have lived much of lives just like you. The pleasures of this world are not a male domain only, it takes two of us to achieve many of our pleasures.

The question is how do we accept and live knowing that it is by Grace only that we have a chance.

merceditas said:

fightingfalcon said:

Lots of sins feel good, FF.

Being sorry for doing something that offends God doesn't mean you have to be sorry for enjoying what felt nice. There's nothing illicit in enjoying the good feelings that extramarital sex provides or drinking and having a good time.

The 'sorry' part is towards God for doing something that he didn't want you to do.

Not sure if I'm saying this right.

If you know God was disappointed and hurt because you broke one of His laws and you're sorry that you hurt him, that's all that matters, He'll forgive you.

My gooodness, in the Catholic faith, we understand that even if you're sorry that what you did will keep you from getting to Heaven, that's sufficient for God's forgiveness.

**After reading all the posts I should add, that God doesn't give you more than you can handle. He gave you free will. But we are all weak and give into temptations. Sometimes what we do wrong becomes habitual, especially things that we enjoy, they are hard habits to break. What matters is that you keep trying.

Many of us have played the same type of game you're playing, FF. It was St Augustine who said something like "I'll convert God, but not just yet." lol!

But none of us know when God has decided it's time to leave this Earth. Yet, He's All Merciful as well as All Just.

I wish you well, FF, with your struggles. Not sure if my 2cents will be helpful.

[FightingFalcon]

tliedel said:

FF,

I've read all your posts here and the responses to them. From what I've read, I can tell you this...You're HUMAN. That means you WILL sin. You will have doubts. You will search. This is where you are at right now. You are searching for truth. However, from what I have read, you are searching in the dark without a guide. Thats a very dangerous situation to place yourself in. It is very easy to get lost in the dark without a guide. Justifying one's behavior becomes easy. If you justify long enough, you will actually believe it as truth. But God is no fool.

Remember that God's laws were not put in place to punish us, but rather to help us. Evey sin has negative consequences, in one form or another, including, and most importantly, distancing yourself from God.

We are ALL sinners. Anyone who says they are not, is a liar. There is only ONE man who walked the face of the earth and never sinned. Christ.

We all have sinned and we all will sin. That is human nature. God knows we are not perfect. Who better to know that than our Creator. He accepts you and all your faults. All He asks is that you accept Him. By doing so, you put the fate of your soul in His hands. Let Him be your guide.

Here's the most important thing to remember while you are searching. Your life here on earth is temporary, but eternity never ends. Where do you want to spend eternity? My advice is pray. Ask for guidance. Ask for understanding. If you pray long enough and are sincere enough, He will answer you.

Thanks for the help but I've finally found the answer that I was looking for. I finally found someone who explained to me that the body-mind/soul separation preached by Christianity is evil. All my life I wondered why I should reject the things that make me happy. I wondered why I didn't believe in undeserved love and why I didn't feel the obligation to help others.

I'm done praying. I'm done living for a being who does not even exist. I'm done sacrificing myself to a being who asks you to sacrifice your body and mind to him while offering no proof of his existence.

All He asks is that you accept Him

No, he asks you to subject your Mind - the most precious thing we have - to him without asking any questions. He asks that you reject all earthly pleasures and serve a purpose that you do not understand nor can question.

From now on I will be following my rational self-interest.

[dustdevil28]

fightingfalcon said:

tliedel said:

FF,

I've read all your posts here and the responses to them. From what I've read, I can tell you this...You're HUMAN. That means you WILL sin. You will have doubts. You will search. This is where you are at right now. You are searching for truth. However, from what I have read, you are searching in the dark without a guide. Thats a very dangerous situation to place yourself in. It is very easy to get lost in the dark without a guide. Justifying one's behavior becomes easy. If you justify long enough, you will actually believe it as truth. But God is no fool.

Remember that God's laws were not put in place to punish us, but rather to help us. Evey sin has negative consequences, in one form or another, including, and most importantly, distancing yourself from God.

We are ALL sinners. Anyone who says they are not, is a liar. There is only ONE man who walked the face of the earth and never sinned. Christ.

We all have sinned and we all will sin. That is human nature. God knows we are not perfect. Who better to know that than our Creator. He accepts you and all your faults. All He asks is that you accept Him. By doing so, you put the fate of your soul in His hands. Let Him be your guide.

Here's the most important thing to remember while you are searching. Your life here on earth is temporary, but eternity never ends. Where do you want to spend eternity? My advice is pray. Ask for guidance. Ask for understanding. If you pray long enough and are sincere enough, He will answer you.

Thanks for the help but I've finally found the answer that I was looking for. I finally found someone who explained to me that the body-mind/soul separation preached by Christianity is evil. All my life I wondered why I should reject the things that make me happy. I wondered why I didn't believe in undeserved love and why I didn't feel the obligation to help others.

I'm done praying. I'm done living for a being who does not even exist. I'm done sacrificing myself to a being who asks you to sacrifice your body and mind to him while offering no proof of his existence.

All He asks is that you accept Him

No, he asks you to subject your Mind - the most precious thing we have - to him without asking any questions. He asks that you reject all earthly pleasures and serve a purpose that you do not understand nor can question.

From now on I will be following my rational self-interest.

Wow, just wow.

James, I've never been a praying person, my wrongs bother me, but not enough to keep me from doing more. I've also never been one to force my life on anyone, but I'm truly shocked that you could give up your belief in God like this.

You've always struck me as a thoughtful person who does not take great leaps away from your convictions, but one of those convictions used to be in Christ. To see you now against it is more than a little surprising and I will say a prayer for you.