Luther was a piece of work.

[tits]

Cat, the United Church of Christ is the Mormons and is not the same as the Church of Christ. There is no head. Each Church attempts to match the autonomy described by Luke in Acts. Elders to rule over each individual body where the Christ is head of the Church, the entire called out masses.

You are correct that my opinions are just mine, but I have used the Word as my foundation and not the opinions of learned men.

Again, Catholics have followed the traditions of man for nearly 1800 years. Though the truth is that it more closely matched the time period of the Muslims. Did not St. Augustine help to establish the first union of the Cardinals? Did not St. Augustine not take in a young Arab caravan adolescent and teach him of Christ for three years? According to some sources, Mohammad got his eclectic view of God from three sources, St. Augustine taught him Christ, a learned Jew taught him the OT Law, and his visions taught him "a better way".

I offered that little bit of remembrance of history to simply show that from one man, St. Augustine came two great religions. I know that you will go back the the gathering of Apostles in Jerusalem in 51 when Paul met with the conference to explain his going to the Grecian gentiles. I know the early Church history better than most. So, where do you want to take this discussion? Also, give your accepted sources, I love to learn and need to see what they say.

Your reliance on tradition is both reassuring and frustrating. But in the end, Christ wants our heart. As we have discussed many times over the last two months, THE SCRIPTURE TELLS US that Christ will judge for himself whom he chooses to enter the Kingdom. We both will be surprised to see who did and did not make it.

Thanks for information on demon possession. I agree with everything you offered. There is a vast difference between demon possession and psychiatric conditions. Though many in the field have attempted to type Hitler and Stalin as Bipolar with obsessive compulsion, megalomania, and antisocial, others have argued that their eyes and explosive tempers were synonymous with demon possession. I don't know, but I do believe in the nether-world and that the spiritual world does interact with us.

[cataracts]

tits said:

Cat, the United Church of Christ is the Mormons and is not the same as the Church of Christ. There is no head. Each Church attempts to match the autonomy described by Luke in Acts. Elders to rule over each individual body where the Christ is head of the Church, the entire called out masses.

You are correct that my opinions are just mine, but I have used the Word as my foundation and not the opinions of learned men.

Again, Catholics have followed the traditions of man for nearly 1800 years. Though the truth is that it more closely matched the time period of the Muslims. Did not St. Augustine help to establish the first union of the Cardinals? Did not St. Augustine not take in a young Arab caravan adolescent and teach him of Christ for three years? According to some sources, Mohammad got his eclectic view of God from three sources, St. Augustine taught him Christ, a learned Jew taught him the OT Law, and his visions taught him "a better way".

I offered that little bit of remembrance of history to simply show that from one man, St. Augustine came two great religions. I know that you will go back the the gathering of Apostles in Jerusalem in 51 when Paul met with the conference to explain his going to the Grecian gentiles. I know the early Church history better than most. So, where do you want to take this discussion? Also, give your accepted sources, I love to learn and need to see what they say.

Your reliance on tradition is both reassuring and frustrating. But in the end, Christ wants our heart. As we have discussed many times over the last two months, THE SCRIPTURE TELLS US that Christ will judge for himself whom he chooses to enter the Kingdom. We both will be surprised to see who did and did not make it.

Thanks for information on demon possession. I agree with everything you offered. There is a vast difference between demon possession and psychiatric conditions. Though many in the field have attempted to type Hitler and Stalin as Bipolar with obsessive compulsion, megalomania, and antisocial, others have argued that their eyes and explosive tempers were synonymous with demon possession. I don't know, but I do believe in the nether-world and that the spiritual world does interact with us.

Tittus,
Your opinion of what Tradition is, is way out of line. You have what may be considered the 'popular' definition of Catholic Tradition, but it is incorrect. I have defined what Catholic Tradition is on the "Catholic Tradition" post. Your definition shows that you are totally clueless.
Another point is your Bible study. As a Protestant, with your beliefs, you cannot comprehend with clarity what the Bible is talking about. I know this last sentance will really piss you off, but the fact is, you cannot properly comprehend the Bible without Catholic teachings and Tradition. Your 'Reformers' have unbelievably cheated you and all the Protestants out of the Truth.
If you truly want to understand the Bible, become Catholic. Then you will understand.
The Catholic Church follows the Traditions with a capital T. Because they are also a huge Church, they also have traditions, made by man, which they do adhere to. These last ones can change.

To say that St. Augustine started two great religions is to speak nonsense. Augustine was a Catholic bishop that lived in and around the year AD 400. He is not only a Father of the Chruch he is also one of 33 Doctors of our Church. If Mohammad says he got his education through any of the Catholic saints, then he was lying through his teeth. The Catholic Church is the true Church. If what Mohammad says was true, then how come there are so many, many, contradictions between Catholicism and Mohammedism? I don't know if Mohammed read any of St. Augustine, but if he did, he corrupted it like everything else that he did.

Cataracts

[tits]

Several sources, Dr. William Burke's piece in the 1988 BBC series "The Day the Universe Changed" discussed the connection between Darwinism and modern theories of Nazism, Capitalism, and Communism. The first fifteen offered a great little discussion on St. Augustine's interactions with Mohammad.

According to one source that you can find on Islamic-city.com, Mohammad had his first vision after visiting with St. Augustine.

Now, opinions, hummmmmm.

Do we believe what "tradition" has taught, do we believe what history has recorded, do we believe what secular revisionist have reported, or do we study to show ourselves approved and make up our own minds based upon the scriptures. Anything other than the Word is subject to man's influence.

The neatest thing about the Dead Sea Scrolls is that those words written between 2200 and 1900 years ago match our current readings of the Torah, Talmud, and Macabees. Heaven and earth may pass away but the Word shall never pass away.

To this, I must proclaim that you are in error. To deny the Word and to accept the traditions of man is contrary to Jesus himself. 4Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God. The WORD sister, THE WORD!

24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."

Was that the words of the Pope? No, it was Christ's words.

Sister, your logic implies that the Bible is flawed and therefore subject to error. Such logic implies that our faith, yours and mine are, as Paul put it, 1 Corn 15: " 1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,


Sister, you hit the nail on the head between the Catholic and Protestant: To many of us, the Word, is the law. To you the Church is the Law. What is the Church without the Law?

[cataracts]

tits said:

Several sources, Dr. William Burke's piece in the 1988 BBC series "The Day the Universe Changed" discussed the connection between Darwinism and modern theories of Nazism, Capitalism, and Communism. The first fifteen offered a great little discussion on St. Augustine's interactions with Mohammad.

According to one source that you can find on Islamic-city.com, Mohammad had his first vision after visiting with St. Augustine.

Now, opinions, hummmmmm.

Do we believe what "tradition" has taught, do we believe what history has recorded, do we believe what secular revisionist have reported, or do we study to show ourselves approved and make up our own minds based upon the scriptures. Anything other than the Word is subject to man's influence.

The neatest thing about the Dead Sea Scrolls is that those words written between 2200 and 1900 years ago match our current readings of the Torah, Talmud, and Macabees. Heaven and earth may pass away but the Word shall never pass away.

To this, I must proclaim that you are in error. To deny the Word and to accept the traditions of man is contrary to Jesus himself. 4Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God. The WORD sister, THE WORD!

24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."

Was that the words of the Pope? No, it was Christ's words.

Sister, your logic implies that the Bible is flawed and therefore subject to error. Such logic implies that our faith, yours and mine are, as Paul put it, 1 Corn 15: " 1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,


Sister, you hit the nail on the head between the Catholic and Protestant: To many of us, the Word, is the law. To you the Church is the Law. What is the Church without the Law?

Tittus,
Once again you have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are a blockhead. Mohammed never visited Augustine. Mohammed lived around the year AD 666. Augustine lived around the year AD 400. There was never a visit. Maybe you are really saying that Mohammed had a vision of Augustine. If you believe that you are thicker than a blockhead.

I have never heard of the good doctor Burke. If he was on the BBC he would be definately lacking in credibility.

I never said the Bible was flawed. It was the Catholics that gave the Bible to the whole world, including the self-serving reformers of the 16 Century. Our Church holds the revelations that God has given to man. Protestants don't hold anything.

I was watching Billy Graham on TV last night. It was an event filmed probably as much as 20 years ago. The audience was filled with Protestants. They were all staring at Graham. I don't know what they were thinking, if anything. Billy Graham did a real good job of preaching. Just about everything he said was the truth. He was very stirring. There was a couple of things that I found odd with what he was saying. It was good stuff, but odd. He was skimming the surface. Talking to these people, he kept to the basics. There was absolultely no depth to what he was saying. There was absolutely nothing spiritual to what he was saying. He was giving Protestants their money's worth. That's all you Protestants ever get. The reason is that those who preach to you cannot give you something they don't have.

I cannot ever be an evangelist. I'm too harsh. In order to sway people one must do it with finese. I'm like a brick. When I deal with knuckleheads like you, I just want to give them a good slam.

Cataracts