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Post by 101ABN on Dec 30, 2007 22:19:24 GMT -8
"But that is only if you assume that the only "rational, sane, balanced" immigration system is one that facilitates "orderly immigration in an absorbable number"
It's mindless to assume otherwise.
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Post by AmericanPride on Dec 30, 2007 23:00:04 GMT -8
That's the same line used by communists, NAZIs, and other ideologies of tyranny to justify their acts. I see that you've decided to retain your membership in that club. It's an effective strategy to stigmatize and discredit disagreement -- but only when you have state power to shut up dissent.
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Post by bounce on Dec 31, 2007 3:12:45 GMT -8
That's the same line used by communists, NAZIs, and other ideologies of tyranny to justify their acts. I see that you've decided to retain your membership in that club. It's an effective strategy to stigmatize and discredit disagreement -- but only when you have state power to shut up dissent. If I had the power to cure idiocy, you would be near the top of my list of recipients. I'd put you in the EMERGENCY TREATMENT NEEDED category. Fishermen know enough to fish where the fish are biting. So, why not take a lesson from them and go sell your mindless crap where the mindless will buy it? www.thehistorychannel.comBe there! |
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Post by bounce on Dec 31, 2007 3:27:55 GMT -8
Did I call you a racist? Or did I say that America's immigration law originated from ideas of race? jfree, of course he did! His tactics are transparent and hollow: He carps his arrogant and racist bullshit, then he says he never said whatever it was that he said. When you show him his own quote - thereby obliterating his point, he says it's time to move on and completes his circular logic by asking another mindless and rhetorical question in an effort to get you to respond. He's a fucking nut! |
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Post by AmericanPride on Dec 31, 2007 8:26:51 GMT -8
I'm still waiting on your quotes bounce.
I've got all the time in the world -- so take your time.
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Post by bounce on Dec 31, 2007 8:31:54 GMT -8
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Post by AmericanPride on Dec 31, 2007 8:32:42 GMT -8
That's not a quote. That's a link. Are you are devolving?
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Post by bounce on Dec 31, 2007 9:26:37 GMT -8
That's not a quote. That's a link. Are you are devolving? From your circular plane of existence, you might consider it that. www.thehistorychannel.comBE THERE! There are people there you can communicate with. Look up Tankey, Harry Haller, etc. There are many there that will offer you meaningful communication. It's clear that at The Outpost different rules of communication apply. Words actually have consistent meanings here. Logic follows a straight line. Up means up from one post to the next. It doesn't mean up one minute and down or sideways the next. I know that is a bit of a mental burden, but it's a necessary "given" for valid communication on this web site. At THC, many posters aren't burdened with things like verbal consistency. Words can mean anything from one post to the next. Definitions of words can be stretched or shrunk to meet any point that any poster cares to make whether it's real or imagined. Over there, you can call Americans "RACISTS" in one post, and in the next post say you never said it. Nobody will question you and if anyone does, their post will disappear soon anyway. Over there, you aren't burdened with things like consistency or meaningful and valid context. Your posts don't have to pass the smell or the straight face tests. You will fit right in! Once again - www.thehistorychannel.comBE THERE! |
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Post by AmericanPride on Dec 31, 2007 9:50:58 GMT -8
Still waiting on those quotes... tick tock tick tock.
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Post by bounce on Dec 31, 2007 10:29:04 GMT -8
Still waiting on those quotes... tick tock tick tock. Have you considered electric-shock therapy? It might have a positive affect on that pesky metronome you have in your head causing all the noise. In the mean time: www.thehistorychannel.comBe there! |
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Post by AmericanPride on Dec 31, 2007 10:44:24 GMT -8
An ignorant person will always overdo a thing or neglect it totally.
- Ali bin Abu-Talib
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Post by jfree on Dec 31, 2007 20:52:59 GMT -8
American. Duh. Which part of American "tradition and culture"? Muslim Americans have different traditions and cultural practices than Catholic Americans. Irish Americans and Italian Americans have different traditions -- so do Black Southern Baptists and White Southern Baptists. Simply because you have certain practices and identify yourself (and thus your practices) as "American" does not mean other Americans practice those same things. So -- again -- which traditions and parts of American culture exactly?
America as a whole has an identity, eclectic but their are threads of continuity running from Southern Baptist to Northern liberal etc... Rooting for the underdog, the constitution, belief in right and wrong, christianity(80% of the country is Christian), Judeo-Christian morae's etc.. all blending into a basic American identity, pulling oneself up by their bootstraps, and the Government is the servant of AMERICAN CITIZENS, not Mexican, Panamanian etc.. it is a direct reflection of America values, when not paid by special interests, we have a balance, an equalibrium that shouldn't be upset because 20million people decide to move disrupting the balance that was there in favor of 3rd world notions or socialist ideology that may be imported, that is why the current system tries to allow an equal number from all nations that apply in order to create a wide array of views that doesn't upset the apple cart.
By disagreeing with my statement that I do not dispute the right of Americans to make immigration policy for the United States, you assert that I in fact disputed that right.
I have not made any such assertion. I have repeatedly said that the most effective immigration policy for the United States would be to enable more immigrants to enter the country.
BS, you said "EVERYONE that wants to come here and work should have that right" And that is not right, Americans can, should and do have the right to regulate, limit and even disallow some from coming here, no one has the RIGHT to immigrate.
An exclamation of "ludicrous" doesn't dispute the argument. Are institutions able or not able to maintain accountability regarding illegal immigrants? If institutions are able to maintain accountability, then please explain the origin of widespread fear of criminal behavior, exploitation of social services, disease, and cultural balkanization and why institutions appear unable to correct these problems.
Beaurocrats, what else? They are capable, but pc insanity has tied the hands of most officials.
My proposal is balanced -- anyone who wants to come here to live and work regardless of origin and number in line.
No it isn't, it's akin to dropping a piano at one end of a teeter totter, the mass migration from South America would be obvious from space, last one out of Mexico, don't forget to turn off the lights.... Accessiblity is a huge problem for people from continents other than American ones, you would have a massive change and shift in culture and politics which is unfair to Americans.
If law enforcement and social services were able to maintain institutional accountability of illegal immigrants, would these problems exist?
It does make it "our problem" if as a result of their "laziness" they decide to immigrate here, drive down wages, steal identities, exploit social services, and basically wreak havoc of American society. You obviously think that illegal immigration is a problem. Therefore, the causes of illegal immigration are also "our problem".
Now your being obtuse. Their laziness is their problem and should not be thrown onto our shores. Fox was one of the worst offenders making maps for illegals to follow thru the desert, and he was in the pocket of many a drug lord.
The citizens are helping themselves by immigrating to the United States in search of work.
They are becoming criminals instead of conscientious citizens of action in their own lands.
I don't think current immigration numbers (legal and illegal) warrant the proclamation that "the world" is immigrating here.
No, not all, but half of South America would head here if you opened the borders, habla espanol?
I didn't "like" the analogy because I do not think the act of using a narcotic is the same as immigrating to another country. Next time please be more specific with the analogy and your intent for it.
Oh please it was obvious, you just have a chip on your shoulder.
[/quote]
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Post by AmericanPride on Dec 31, 2007 21:17:35 GMT -8
I agree that those are basic, universal American values. However, many Mexicans believe in many of those same things -- particularly Christianity. Obviously, "the constitution" will not be a value for a community that perceives itself excluded from the rights and responsibilities of the Constitution. The process of naturalization illustrates that enfranchised immigrants develop a sense of the American identity -- many even fight and die for that. I do not think it would be any different only if the volume of people changed (assuming, of course, that institutional powers are organized in a way to manage it). Illegal immigrants will definitely not generate any kind of identity with America if they are continually held at odds with it.
I do not think the "equilibrium" will be "upset". When Italians immigrated to the United States, they did so at a rate greater than Mexicans today. America still maintains today the same core beliefs that it held back then (with slight modifications of course). Mexicans, legal and illegal, are undergoing the same political, economic, and cultural processes that assimilated Italians and other groups. The major concern is that Mexicans, particularly illegals, maintain their original identity -- this is true, I think, but it is not caused because Mexican culture is somehow incompatible with American values, but because as an element of society they perceive themselves to be set apart by policy (whether true or not). This only reinforces their identity as Mexicans --- the same process occurred with Blacks in the south and explains the rise of the Black Power movement. Alienation strengthens the identity that is being isolated as a matter of survival -- and this breeds tension. Erasing the underlying conflict of illegal immigration will resolve the issue.
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Post by 101ABN on Dec 31, 2007 21:20:33 GMT -8
"That's the same line used by communists, NAZIs, and other ideologies of tyranny to justify their acts. I see that you've decided to retain your membership in that club."
Listen up, shithead.
For whatever it's worth to you, you arrogant little pup, I was wearing the uniform and fighting for this country AND working for civil rights DECADES before you became an evil gleam in your daddy's eye.
I'm the son of an immigrant who knows personally what following the laws that pertain to immigration means. If my mother could do it legally, dumbass, Jose from Jalisco can do it legally. If he can't, then he can get the hell out of Dodge.
Yes, it really is that simple.
Last piece.
Don't EVER play that fucking Nazi card on me again.
Got it?
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