Bush's speech

[bounce]

mario said:

Have a good night Barf boy

Gee, a pleasant good night to you as well, my liberal friend.

That's pretty funny.

lol

[MARIO]

bounce said:

mario said:

Have a good night Barf boy

Gee, a pleasant good night to you as well, my liberal friend.

That's pretty funny.

lol

Cameron has done a good job at being mean and sarcastic with the libs over at THC.

He should know by now that I can be just as mean, if not more.

[FightingFalcon]

Say what you want about the political parties, but the reality is that they are here to stay. You have to work within either one of them to get what you want. You maintain influence by staying with the Party. Now I'm a proud Reagan Republican.

How can you say that Mario? How can you betray what you believe in just so that you can retain influence with a bunch of corrupt officials?

FUCK that....I betray my beliefs for NO ONE. That's why I refuse to register as a Libertarian, because there are things that they advocate which I don't agree with. I will never support any organization if I have objections to what they teach.

I just don't understand people who remain with a party despite disagreeing with it. How can you possibly go to sleep at night knowing that you betrayed your beliefs? If you so easily betray what you believe in, clearly your convictions don't mean shit.

I'm not talking to you personally here Mario, just people in general. I don't get why people are so quick to defend their fellow party members, even when they know they're wrong. I just don't get how people can betray themselves for people they've never met before. It's just an issue of integrity, IMHO.

I realize that my beliefs will never become mainstream and that I have no chance of influencing American policy. But at least I can go to bed at night knowing that I've never sacrificed a single inch of what I believe in.

[MARIO]

fightingfalcon said:

Say what you want about the political parties, but the reality is that they are here to stay. You have to work within either one of them to get what you want. You maintain influence by staying with the Party. Now I'm a proud Reagan Republican.

How can you say that Mario? How can you betray what you believe in just so that you can retain influence with a bunch of corrupt officials?

FUCK that....I betray my beliefs for NO ONE. That's why I refuse to register as a Libertarian, because there are things that they advocate which I don't agree with. I will never support any organization if I have objections to what they teach.

I just don't understand people who remain with a party despite disagreeing with it. How can you possibly go to sleep at night knowing that you betrayed your beliefs? If you so easily betray what you believe in, clearly your convictions don't mean shit.

I'm not talking to you personally here Mario, just people in general. I don't get why people are so quick to defend their fellow party members, even when they know they're wrong. I just don't get how people can betray themselves for people they've never met before. It's just an issue of integrity, IMHO.

I realize that my beliefs will never become mainstream and that I have no chance of influencing American policy. But at least I can go to bed at night knowing that I've never sacrificed a single inch of what I believe in.

James, I don't know where you're getting this.

I disagree with NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE PARTY. However, the others agree with me. We all agree on some points and disagree on others. Compromise is essential to politics. I'm not betraying my views by identifying with a Political Party. As I said, I'm a proud Republican. But there are going to be times where I dislike certain leaders in the Party. There are going to be times in which I disagree with other members. You have to compromise or win over others to your way of thinking. That's politics. No two people are going to agree on absolutely everything.

My point was that the two major parties are here to stay. Your beliefs won't advance in terms of policy because you'll have no influence in the party system.

BTW: You're going to take orders and follow instructions with which you may not agree while in the USAF. But you'll still follow them.

That's not betraying your principles, is it?

Later.

[Far Rider]

fightingfalcon said:

FUCK that....I betray my beliefs for NO ONE. That's why I refuse to register as a Libertarian, because there are things that they advocate which I don't agree with. I will never support any organization if I have objections to what they teach.

Have you noticed something about these rants of FF's? They contain a lot of I,I,I,me,me,me,my,my,my?

I just don't understand people who remain with a party despite disagreeing with it.

It's the same way people stay with a spouse after 20,30, and 40 years despite not being able to get along with them all the time. You don't really think you'll ever agree with everybody all the time, do you?

How can you possibly go to sleep at night knowing that you betrayed your beliefs? If you so easily betray what you believe in, clearly your convictions don't mean shit.

And what if your convictions DO mean shit? What are you going to do when you find out you have been naive or just plain wrong? Do your "convictions" still stand then?

I'm not talking to you personally here Mario, just people in general. I don't get why people are so quick to defend their fellow party members, even when they know they're wrong. I just don't get how people can betray themselves for people they've never met before. It's just an issue of integrity, IMHO.

And some people will betray people who have supported them for some bullshit "conviction" that doesn't amount to a tinker's damn in the grand scheme of things. That's known as "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" to most adult people.

I realize that my beliefs will never become mainstream and that I have no chance of influencing American policy. But at least I can go to bed at night knowing that I've never sacrificed a single inch of what I believe in.

Your beliefs already are mainstream, for the "me" generation.

[Far Rider]

BTW: You're going to take orders and follow instructions with which you may not agree while in the USAF. But you'll still follow them.

I wonder.....

[bounce]

I wonder.....

Hee hee hee

No shit!

[FightingFalcon]

Compromise is essential to politics.

Bullshit. I will never agree to a corrupted form of my beliefs just for the sake of "progress".

But there are going to be times where I dislike certain leaders in the Party

So you agree 100% with the Republican platform? If yes....that's amazing. If no...why are you still a member? How can you defend an organization that you have disagreements with? How do you so easily betray yourself like that? All for the sake of pleasing other people? Screw that....

My point was that the two major parties are here to stay. Your beliefs won't advance in terms of policy because you'll have no influence in the party system.

I already said that I don't expect to have any influence. But that's fine with me. At least I'll be able to live with myself knowing that I have sacrificed nothing that I believe in. It's all or nothing with me.

BTW: You're going to take orders and follow instructions with which you may not agree while in the USAF. But you'll still follow them.

Like what? The USAF opposes torture just like I do. It's Bounce who is on the outside looking in on this issue. The USAF opposes discrimination and intolerance, just like I do. Again....it's him who is on the wrong side of the AF. I will have no problem following orders because I will agree with them.

That's not betraying your principles, is it?

If I argued that we should build more F-22s but command says no, I'll go along with the program. That isn't betraying my principles but rather just my military opinion.

Have you noticed something about these rants of FF's? They contain a lot of I,I,I,me,me,me,my,my,my?

It's funny - you know who turned me into this radical, Mike? It was Ayn Rand's novel, The Fountainhead. Although I felt this way for a long time, I struggled with it. Now I'm a full-blown Idealist who refuses to compromise his beliefs - and I could care less what anyone else thinks.

Or are you now going to bad-mouth Ayn Rand, basically the most important Libertarian to have ever lived?

And what if your convictions DO mean shit? What are you going to do when you find out you have been naive or just plain wrong? Do your "convictions" still stand then?

If I'm wrong, which I've admitted to in the past, then I do my best to correct the wrong.

I doubt I'll ever change my opinion on torture, the killing of innocents, the death penalty, abortion, etc. however.

And some people will betray people who have supported them for some bullshit "conviction" that doesn't amount to a tinker's damn in the grand scheme of things.

So now Integrity doesn't matter? On the contrary - it's the most important thing in the world.

Your beliefs already are mainstream, for the "me" generation.

You're absolutely right Mike.

Defending oil companies and their profits is mainstream for my generation.

Opposing abortion in any case is mainsteam for my generation.

Opposing the membership of Russia in the G8 is mainstream for my generation.

Advocating severing diplomatic ties with China, North Korea and Cuba is mainstream for my generation.

Absolute hatred and disgust for Communism is mainstream for my generation.

Get a clue Mike.

[Far Rider]

fightingfalcon said:

It's funny - you know who turned me into this radical, Mike? It was Ayn Rand's novel, The Fountainhead. Although I felt this way for a long time, I struggled with it. Now I'm a full-blown Idealist who refuses to compromise his beliefs - and I could care less what anyone else thinks.

And I will be the first to tell you that Ayn Rand had some kooky ideas. Some good ones, too, but some of her ideas were kooky.

Or are you now going to bad-mouth Ayn Rand, basically the most important Libertarian to have ever lived?

Funny how you're on the other side of this argument all of a sudden. No, I don't agree with everything Ayn Rand has ever said, but I didn't think I had to to appreciate some of her ideas.

Kinda like what Mario was saying about Republicans...

So now Integrity doesn't matter? On the contrary - it's the most important thing in the world.

Of course it matters. Picking your battles matters, too, and when you grow up maybe you'll figure that out.

[FightingFalcon]

Funny how you're on the other side of this argument all of a sudden. No, I don't agree with everything Ayn Rand has ever said, but I didn't think I had to to appreciate some of her ideas.

Kinda like what Mario was saying about Republicans...

That's how I feel as well - hence why I don't consider myself to be an Objectivist nor do I belong to any Ayn Rand societies. I reject her rejection of God and therefore could not, in good faith, claim to be an Objectivist.

I was simply saying that if you are going to bad-mouth the central tenants of Rand's ideas (among them, never sacrificing yourself for "society"), it would be highly ironic. Or maybe not so much ironic....

Of course it matters. Picking your battles matters, too, and when you grow up maybe you'll figure that out.

I'm sorry, I don't choose when I should have Integrity and when I shouldn't. It's just always there.

[Far Rider]

I'm sorry, I don't choose when I should have Integrity and when I shouldn't. It's just always there.

So you say. There used to be an old song that began "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread..." You are the prototypical fool rushing in to protect your "integrity" at all costs because you don't know the difference between battles that are worth fighting and battles that aren't worth fighting. So you'd just as soon lose the war and win the battle rather than have anybody think that Fighting Falcon, Inc. had ever comprimised his "integrity" when the reality is that nobody gives a fat rat's ass about you or your integrity as you see it. What they care about is whether or not they can count on you when the rubber hits the road, and from what I see, nobody can, because your own damn ego is more important than the good of the whole.

The greater good is why I voted for the Republicans in the last election as a registered Libertarian (whether you like it or not) and I will vote for them again as an independent now that North Carolina has ceased to recognize the Libertarian party. It's because I know damn well what's at stake if the Demmunists get control of congress and proceed to impeach the president and spend the next two years fucking around with their petty squabbles rather than concentrating on winning a war we deserve to win just because they hate the president.

I have to listen to your bullshit about asking me "what kind of Libertarian I am" all the time because I don't march in lockstep with you. I am the kind of Libertarian who lived through the Vietnam war and am not one bit interested in handing over Iraq the way we handed Vietnam over to a bunch of murderers. I have said it before but here it is again: I am not going to let the Demmunists tuck tail and run away in Iraq if they get control of the government. And if that means I have to put up with out of control spending and a few other things, so be it - I am convinced that Bush knows what's at stake in Iraq and he always has.

This is reality 101, not some book.

[dustdevil28]

fightingfalcon said:

Compromise is essential to politics.

Bullshit. I will never agree to a corrupted form of my beliefs just for the sake of "progress".



So you agree 100% with the Republican platform? If yes....that's amazing. If no...why are you still a member? How can you defend an organization that you have disagreements with? How do you so easily betray yourself like that? All for the sake of pleasing other people? Screw that....



I already said that I don't expect to have any influence. But that's fine with me. At least I'll be able to live with myself knowing that I have sacrificed nothing that I believe in. It's all or nothing with me.



Like what? The USAF opposes torture just like I do. It's Bounce who is on the outside looking in on this issue. The USAF opposes discrimination and intolerance, just like I do. Again....it's him who is on the wrong side of the AF. I will have no problem following orders because I will agree with them.



If I argued that we should build more F-22s but command says no, I'll go along with the program. That isn't betraying my principles but rather just my military opinion.



It's funny - you know who turned me into this radical, Mike? It was Ayn Rand's novel, The Fountainhead. Although I felt this way for a long time, I struggled with it. Now I'm a full-blown Idealist who refuses to compromise his beliefs - and I could care less what anyone else thinks.

Or are you now going to bad-mouth Ayn Rand, basically the most important Libertarian to have ever lived?



If I'm wrong, which I've admitted to in the past, then I do my best to correct the wrong.

I doubt I'll ever change my opinion on torture, the killing of innocents, the death penalty, abortion, etc. however.



So now Integrity doesn't matter? On the contrary - it's the most important thing in the world.

Your beliefs already are mainstream, for the "me" generation.

You're absolutely right Mike.

Defending oil companies and their profits is mainstream for my generation.

Opposing abortion in any case is mainsteam for my generation.

Opposing the membership of Russia in the G8 is mainstream for my generation.

Advocating severing diplomatic ties with China, North Korea and Cuba is mainstream for my generation.

Absolute hatred and disgust for Communism is mainstream for my generation.

Get a clue Mike.

I agree with Mario on this one James.

Back in the 1840's and 50's the abolitionists were a little rag tag third party made up of people who would not compromise and vote for anyone who'd work with the south.

This took away votes from the whig party. A lawyer and member of the whig party named Abraham Lincoln was often heard saying that it was best to compromise some beliefs to achieve some goals rather than alienate others and in the end achieve nothing.

I understand if this seems horrible to you, but the point is still valid. If you don't compromise than in the end you'll have acheived nothing. In compromise we can get some immediate goals and continue to push for the rest at later times.

[101ABN]

"Or are you now going to bad-mouth Ayn Rand, basically the most important Libertarian to have ever lived?"

Never have a hero, FF.

It diminishes you.

[bounce]

admin said:

"Or are you now going to bad-mouth Ayn Rand, basically the most important Libertarian to have ever lived?"

Never have a hero, FF.

It diminishes you.

Hey 101, you shed blood on my behalf on foreign shores.

You're my hero.

If I have to live a diminshed life as a result... So be it!

I'lll get used to it.

Thank you for your service. <salute>

[101ABN]

And for yours. <return salute>

There's a deeper meaning.