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Post by MARIO on May 12, 2007 21:10:44 GMT -8
Atheists Better Pray to God They’re Right By Doug Giles Sunday, May 13, 2007 Paul (not the lead singer of the Beatles, but the apostle Paul) states that God has made Himself known, via creation, to all men. According to the apostle, God’s revealed Himself not just to Christians and to Jews, but to every one everywhere (see Romans 1:18-21). This means that from Jo-Jo the Brazilian monkey boy, to the Cameroon pygmies, to the whiny lesbian agnostic smoking clove cigarettes at Starbucks, to the beer swillin’ dillweeds (What’s up, dudes? I’ll see after I pen this column! Keep ‘em cold.), to the brooding British atheists, all people know God exists—even if they can’t really put a finger on some of the finer points of His person. Yes, through what has been made, God has plastered on the souls of earth’s citizenry the general revelation that He’s present. In addition, they also know when they’re being a jack ass and when they’re being cool (more on that next week). I know the above 411 hurts the atheists to hear, seeing that they’ve staked so much of their imago on God’s non-existence. But c’mon, you know there’s Someone “out there,” so cut the crap, shave your goatee and find some other way to pick up chicks—okay, James Dean? Look, if Paul’s right and people know that they know Him (even if it’s in some dull sense of the word), why do some trip over themselves and tie their brains in knots in order to curb this knowledge? Why do people go nuts looking for loopholes and supposed contradictions in the scripture, hypocrisies within the church and some shared semblance to an ape in order to convince themselves that God’s not here, there or anywhere and never has been nor ever will be? Is it because . . . They are Johnny Quest truth seekers looking to answer man’s $64,000 question? They are evolutionary luminaries uncommonly endowed with more smarts than us poor cattle and are here to help us club foot our way up the Darwinian ladder and away from such primal fairy tales? Or is it simply because . . . The existence of God, His standards and a day of personal accountability really, really, jacks with their efforts at autonomy and their chances of getting laid tonight? The apostle Paul states it’s the latter. Atheists, according to Santo Pablo, have suppressed the truth because God really cramps their style. It’s hard to persistently indulge the appetites of the flesh if there is a holy God to whom you must give account. The truth is that all men, who have not bowed their knee to God and His way, hate Him and are intrinsically geared against God. (I know that’s tight, but it’s right) Jesus put it forcefully up fallen humanity’s tailpipe when He exposed why men reject the knowledge of God when He said, “Men love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil. For everyone who does evils hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed” (Jn. 3.19-20). This is easy math, folks: A man who has no remorse and thus no desire to repent from his sins is probably not going to be a big advocate for the existence, person and work of God. You know that all the various no-God arguments—which, to be sure, are fun to debate and write about and blah, blah, blah—actually stem from the root of the atheist’s refusal to curtsy to what he already internally knows is true. It is this denial and refusal to embrace the general knowledge of God given through creation that officially pisseth off the Lord thy God and puts the atheist in a precarious position. My advice to my atheist buddies is this: you’d better pray to God that you’re right and that He doesn’t exist—because if you’re wrong, eternity is going to be rough. To be continued . . . www.townhall.com/columnists/column.aspx?UrlTitle=atheists_better_pray_to_god_they%e2%80%99re_right&ns=DougGiles&dt=05/13/2007&page=2 |
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Post by FightingFalcon on May 12, 2007 21:15:55 GMT -8
What utter nonsense.
There is no proof for the existence of god. How can I suppress the truth when the truth is that there is no god? Keep believing in fairy tales - I'll keep believing in the truth.
So, what you're saying is that you're only good because you fear god's wrath? Did I get that correctly?
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Post by Far Rider on May 13, 2007 1:24:40 GMT -8
I have always thought this is why atheists have to go to every message board on the internet to preach their non-belief. They know damn well they're accountable to a transcendent being law, whatever, and they can't stand the idea of that.
Or some of them just hate God because they want to be God.
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Post by Far Rider on May 13, 2007 1:33:17 GMT -8
Keep believing in fairy tales - I'll keep believing in the truth. Coming from somebody whose "truth" changes about as often as I change my socks, that's pretty funny. |
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Post by FightingFalcon on May 13, 2007 6:02:24 GMT -8
Who was the one that brought up the subject? Personally, I don't care what crazy religious beliefs people choose to believe. Just keep it to yourself and get out of my face with it (e.g. stop trying to teach retarded Creationism in schools).
I am accountable to myself - to my own virtues and my idea of perfection. I don't need a mystical being to keep me in line. I am mature enough to keep myself in line.
Not as funny as someone who still believes in fairy tales. See, I'm someone who can't accept something on faith. I need proof and scientific evidence to back it up. That's why I struggled so hard with religion for basically all of my life. If there is one thing I'm very bad at, it's taking things on faith. I couldn't accept a belief system where the person who suspends reason the most is regarded the highest.
There comes a time in everyone's life when they begin to doubt the religion that they were brought up in. Those of us who analyze the evidence, notice the patterns between all religion and realize the irrationality of faith, become Atheists. Those of us who refuse their mental obligations of free thought remain religious.
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Post by AmericanPride on May 13, 2007 15:57:43 GMT -8
The only objection I will state, and it's a concept that the article somewhat captures, is that religion promises justice in the afterlife. But life on earth would be so much more pleasant if justice were available here. And it's not that people are "evil" -- no one says, "I do these things because I am evil." Instead, we live in a world where sound thinking and a sense of justice is a rare combination to come by. If religion promised justice now rather than later, life would improve. But then again, religion can't deliver justice, now or ever, now can it?
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Post by MARIO on May 13, 2007 18:46:33 GMT -8
What utter nonsense. There is no proof for the existence of god. How can I suppress the truth when the truth is that there is no god? Keep believing in fairy tales - I'll keep believing in the truth. So, what you're saying is that you're only good because you fear god's wrath? Did I get that correctly? James, if you think for one minute I am going to discuss this issue with you, then you have another thing coming. I've learned there is simply no reasoning with atheists on any level. I had to laugh at Richard Dawkins on Bill's O'Reilly's show a couple weeks ago. Bill's questions left Dawkins completely flustered, yet he kept maintaining his position on the non-existence of God. Guys like him thrive on gullibility. That's not to say there aren't fundamentalist Christians that are irrational as well. But I find it weird when somebody goes from being a die-hard Catholic to a full-blown atheist in what...less than a year? What's the deal? A year ago you would have told one of those leftwing atheist nuts off if he or she said you believed in a fairy-tale God. You don't see the irony? |
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Post by FightingFalcon on May 13, 2007 19:11:26 GMT -8
Ha - you think O'Reilly got the best of Dawkins? All he did was repeat the same old religious talking points that everyone else has repeated in an attempted refute of Atheism.
No, I can't disprove God. I also can't disprove Thor, or Mithras, or magical flying unicorns so small that I can't see them. Just because I can't disprove something doesn't mean that it exists. You admit that you don't believe in pagan gods, right? Well I just go one god further and say I don't believe in your god.
You see the smile on Dawkin's face when O'Reilly says that he can't believe that we just lucked out? It's because Dawkins (and I) know how completely retarded that comment is. No, we didn't "luck out" with anything. It's called billions of years of evolution.
The only point that O'Reilly and other Theists can cling to is that we don't know what event caused the Big Bang. That much is true - science has been able to re-trace the steps of the universe to Time Zero but we're not quite sure what caused the Big Bang. Taking its typical role throughout history, religion is used to explain it. Just as religion was used to explain floods, lightning, plagues, etc. its being used today as a justification for the creation of the universe. That is the LAST thing that you Theists have left. Once science proves how the universe was created, you will have nothing to fall back on. Fortunately, religion will probably die before science even has to solve that mystery.
I always had doubts - I always just accepted them as being part of the "leap of faith". I didn't make the decision to become an Atheist over night. My religious progression from Catholic to Atheist occurred over a period of about four years. I was just never very public about the inner strife going on. I felt that the more I studied religion the less doubts I would have but the exact opposite came true. The more I studied religion (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, pagan faiths, etc.), the more I began to disbelieve all of them.
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Post by MARIO on May 13, 2007 21:11:42 GMT -8
Ha - you think O'Reilly got the best of Dawkins? All he did was repeat the same old religious talking points that everyone else has repeated in an attempted refute of Atheism.Of course he did. Dawkins was speechless. And I don't blame him. You see, I don't care if you want to be an atheist, James. Enjoy it. But if we agree that neither Atheism nor the existence of a God can be proven, then what the hell are we arguing about? Atheists have the misconception that Atheism is tantamount to being wiser. But how so? It's called billions of years of evolution.And there are A LOT of questions about evolution as well. The fact is that none of us know enough about the beginning of the world. That is the LAST thing that you Theists have left.Calm down. Once science proves how the universe was created, you will have nothing to fall back on. Fortunately, religion will probably die before science even has to solve that mystery. Hopefully, Islam will. The more I studied religion (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, pagan faiths, etc.), the more I began to disbelieve all of them. Fucking liberal professors. 
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Post by cataracts on May 14, 2007 0:58:41 GMT -8
Mario, Excellent article!! It covers so many bases with humor. I liked it very much. I have to take exception with Fighting Falcon: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------T No, I can't disprove God. I also can't disprove Thor, or Mithras, or magical flying unicorns so small that I can't see them. Just because I can't disprove something doesn't mean that it exists. You admit that you don't believe in pagan gods, right? Well I just go one god further and say I don't believe in your god. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No one, but no one, gets upset about 'Mithras', 'Thor', or little 'flying unicorns'. Why not? Because everyone knows they don't exist! But everyone knows God exists. Not only that but they know that He will hold them to much tighter controls then they would like. Usually the controlls they hate the most are the sexual ones. Mmmm. Then Fighting Falcon exclaims: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not as funny as someone who still believes in fairy tales. See, I'm someone who can't accept something on faith. I need proof and scientific evidence to back it up. That's why I struggled so hard with religion for basically all of my life. If there is one thing I'm very bad at, it's taking things on faith. I couldn't accept a belief system where the person who suspends reason the most is regarded the highest --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FF, people go as far as they can on their own reason. It's only when they reach a limit in understanding that they go to Faith. Faith is not a fairy tale. Faith is when people know there is 'something', it 'something' they believe is true, but they can't prove it scientifically. Every scientist and every inventor has had faith. If they didn't they would have never discovered anything or invented anything. Why would Einstein ever work so hard to discover the theory of Relativity if he didn't think it was true to begin with. He had faith that there was something to all this stuff. Faith always overshadows and completely overlaps anything we know for a fact. Actually you arive at a point where you know and understand and comprehend your religion. But it still isn't called faith. This is where God puts the spark in you and then you know that it is Faith. Jesus said that "you can't come to me without the Father calling you". This is the spark. FF, you should have never doubted your Catholic religion. When a point was reached in which you had no answer, you should have just waited. There is no surer teachings than the teachings of the Catholic Church. O'Reily may be a good tv host but he is no great shakes as a defender of the faith. Dawkins is pathetic. He knows that he will make money off of his interview by O'Reily. He's a con artist. Always has been. There is no way that he could defend his statements about evolution or Christianity. He's a joke and laughs all the way to the bank. Cataracts  |
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Post by Far Rider on May 14, 2007 4:43:08 GMT -8
Bullshit.
I have watched you go from a conservative Catholic to a left wing atheist (and everything in between) in a matter of - what - 3 years?
My memory isn't THAT bad, so if you're counting on it being so short that I don't remember when you were one of us, don't bother. You sound like yet another disgruntled ex-Catholic to me, and you'd be amazed at how many there are. They just join another religion and call themselves atheists.
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Post by FightingFalcon on May 14, 2007 5:22:57 GMT -8
Speechless because he has to argue against the same "arguments" every single day. That the universe was either created by god or that its some cosmic accident. Holy hell those AREN'T the only two options out there! How about a process of natural selection over literally hundreds of BILLIONS of years? Theists love to talk about the improbability of life arising on Earth. Well take a look at this quote from Dawkins, which I got from his book The God Delusion:
Before you respond, just think about how many planets that is. Can you fathom it? I can't - the number is simply incredible.
What I'm arguing is that altho I can't disprove a great many things, I can make an educated guess as to whether they exist or not.
The relationship between intelligence levels and religious belief are already well documented. Although there are exceptions to the rule, typically the more education a person has, the less religious he or she will be. Now, notice I said typically so don't throw random examples at me and try to disprove the general trend. The states with the lowest IQs in America are all in the Deep South. Coincidence? No. The Middle East hasn't produced a significant achievement since the take-over of militant Islam. Coincidence? No.
Any belief system (be it religion, Communism, etc) that answers the question "Why" with "Because God says so!" is flawed and will stifle independent thinking. Religion requires the suspension of reason in favor of faith. Of course it will therefore produce individuals who are less intelligent. But the more education you have, the more you are forced to question what you believe in. "Because God says so!" is not an accepted answer for an essay on the existence of god. The more you learn about our universe and how it works, its typically inevitable for people to lose religious faith.
I'll hold out for when all religion is dead.
Haha - nah, I didn't take any religion courses here at school, other than Roman Mythology. All my religious studying is done on my own time.
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Post by FightingFalcon on May 14, 2007 5:26:25 GMT -8
LOL - does anyone else notice the irony here? Am I really the only one? I hope not.
I am a mature enough individual to hold myself in line with very high standards. I don't need my imaginary friend to do it for me.
Ah yes, the good old days of religion - don't question anything. I almost miss those days...
The man is a professor at Oxford, the most renowned evolutionary biologist in the world and single-handedly proved gene theory.
What have you done with your life to question this man's intelligence?
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Post by FightingFalcon on May 14, 2007 5:27:45 GMT -8
Please, Mike - don't act like you can get a full picture of me simply based on what I wrote here and at THC. You might know a little about me but you are not privy to the inner debate that I had with myself for years. For many years I tried to cover it up but it reached a point that I began to question it openly. That is the side that you saw of me starting roughly a year ago. The war raged inside for much longer than that though.
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Post by Far Rider on May 14, 2007 7:56:13 GMT -8
But I find it weird when somebody goes from being a die-hard Catholic to a full-blown atheist in what...less than a year? Arguing with atheists is a waste of time anyway. If you say you believe in God and they say they don't, that should be the end of the conversation. They say you can't prove there is a God and they can't prove there isn't. It's not "more scientific" to claim there is no God, especially when by denying his existence you affirm his existence at the same time. There is no "intellectual" reason for the fundamentalist atheists like Dawkins to argue against God the way they do - it's an emotional argument, and you can never win an emotional argument. |
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