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Post by bounce on May 20, 2006 9:00:59 GMT -8
The Mexican government would lose big bucks should trafficking in people be curtailed in the US. Unindicted co-conspirators all. DAMN STRAIGHT! When Bush called Mexico, "Our friend and ally" I just about fell off my chair. |
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Post by LorSpi on May 20, 2006 9:04:24 GMT -8
There was a big stink about charges American companies made to transfer money overseas. They lowered their charges. NOTHING about the charges Mexican banks still have to handle dollars.
The money generated by the trade in illegals serves to facilitate trade in drugs, weapons and other contraband. It is down right scary just how bad the bad guys are in this arena.
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Post by 101ABN on May 20, 2006 9:04:51 GMT -8
Might as well call Soros an American patriot.
When Vicente Fox' term is up maybe he'll run for the US senate.
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Post by LorSpi on May 20, 2006 9:06:00 GMT -8
DAMN STRAIGHT! When Bush called Mexico, "Our friend and ally" I just about fell off my chair. Mexico is an ally of Cuba. Not the US. The Mexican government has NEVER sided with the US in any international forum. |
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Post by cameron on May 20, 2006 11:29:54 GMT -8
Hey Lor  Don't tell me they don't want to be here legal please. Lor I've known a whole bunch of them, they most certainly do. You know I should go into this more but I need go right now. Lor I've worked with trained, and lived with them. Lor here in Huntington kick them all out and the town shuts down and the neighborhood by the train station where they all own homes will be emptied. We need honest debate and exchange of ideas on this. Not false blanket assumptions. As far as the Barbary Pirates go I know all about them thanks anyway Lor. The threat we face as a nation at this moment is not being posed by wetbacks. This whole thing has put me in one very sour mood so I 'm gonna go do the yard work get all the bad blood in me sweated out. You're going to have one very manicured lawn, I expect  I haven't been as on top of it as I should have been need to get on it. We don't hire illegals here to do our yard work Cameron - you are either neglecting or ignoring one very basic fact: the number of Mexicans who are living LEGALLY in the US. In fact, your support of those who are breaking US law is an insult to the majority of law-abiding Mexicans who are legal residents - whether as students, workers or family members. An insult? Oh puhleeze, tell them to get over it. This whole line jumping argument is a red herring. The people who have come here haven't jumped any line considering none of them would have been eligible to get on the line in the first place. The people who are now waiting on the line are not going to be knocked further back in the line they are on no matter how we decide to deal with those already here. Do my homework? OK I will read it when I get a chance latter on tonight. Here is a homework question for you, what is the percentage of all recent immigrants legal and illegal as compared to the overall population of the nation? What was the historical high water mark for this percentage. The idea that we are about to be over run is alarmist fear mongering. You want to do something about the criminal elements within the illegal population the easiest way to do that would be to put them on a path to legalize their presence here. They are in fact the victims of these criminal elements. Follow the money. Who do you think is paying for these "demonstrations" demanding the end to criminal background checks? LEGAL Mexican residents? No. The communists were behind those demonstrations Lor I know that already. In fact I would not be surprised in Castro and Chavez had a hand in it. My position on that is we should have had paddy wagons roll up and start rounding them up and immediately deport them. I also suspect the communists were courting the inevitable and predictable backlash. Adjusting immigration status in the US is easy. The fact that these folks have chosen not to makes them criminals. Plenty of Mexicans obey US law - go to the Consulates and apply for work visas, student visas, immigration visas. Lor these people have a cultural fear of authority unless we tell them they aren't going to be arrested and deported on the spot. They aren't going to come forward, that's what prevents them from doing so, not a lack of desire to be here legally. Oh and despite what you've said about it being easy that does not jive with my own personal experience. Some of the people I've dealt with deserve to be flogged. I tried to do it without a lawyer that just didn't work got no where trying to take care of it myself. Time to arrest and deport those who don't. Put the coyotes out of business. I have not problem deporting anyone who is even so much as gets a ticket jay walking. The idea that we are going to start rounding up illegals and start mass deportation is a fantasy that isn't going to happen. If you really think that is going to happen you are not dealing in reality. My concern is for a real solution to border security not fantasies of mass deportations driven by fear. We have real enemies and they are not the poor bastards trying to get here, any way they can, to build a better life for themselves. They are not our enemies. Going back out side to play now. |
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Post by bounce on May 20, 2006 11:59:51 GMT -8
Cameron, I am having a really hard time understanding what you mean here.
I am not following you:
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Post by cameron on May 20, 2006 13:12:41 GMT -8
The line jumping?
How could they posibly be jumping a line they were never going to be allowed to get on in the first place?
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Post by 101ABN on May 20, 2006 13:17:32 GMT -8
The line jumping? How could they posibly be jumping a line they were never going to be allowed to get on in the first place? Splitting hairs here. Call them gate-crashers or cat burglars, it's all the same in the end. They've entered where they have no right to enter and remain where they have no right to remain. |
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Post by bounce on May 20, 2006 13:24:39 GMT -8
The line jumping? How could they posibly be jumping a line they were never going to be allowed to get on in the first place? I still don't get this... The ones here legally did whatever it took to do so legally. It obviously takes too damn long and we mean to fix that, but we still have to limit the numbers, so it's still going to take time (long enough to piss people off). Now, others just show up and they're IN. Badda-Bing Baby! How do you not see that as jumping in line ahead of all the people who have invested YEARS trying to do things legally? |
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Post by cameron on May 20, 2006 13:28:08 GMT -8
The line jumping? How could they possibly be jumping a line they were never going to be allowed to get on in the first place? Splitting hairs here. Call them gate-crashers or cat burglars, it's all the same in the end. They've entered where they have no right to enter and remain where they have no right to remain. I'm not splitting hairs calling them line jumpers as though the cheated those on line is a red herring. I want honest debate. We have done nothing up to this point in time to lift a finger to stop them from coming in or from getting a job once they are here, have we? It matters not at all that no one here personally gave their approval, we as a nation were in fact sending a message to these people. Now how many people do you suppose got up and left to never return to their favorite eatery when they realized the bus boy didn't speak any English? How many home owners made sure the contractor's laborers putting on the new edition to their home, all had their papers? Do you suppose they went with the guy that seemed to be able to do what they wanted for the least amount of money. Not really looking to close at who was putting up the dry wall. Here on Long Island landscapers are every where. How many people do you think check to make sure the guy they hire only uses documented labor? I could go on and on. Are you starting to see my point? We the people of the United States were not a bunch of innocent bystanders who were let down by our politicians when it comes to this "invasion". We as a whole were in fact complicit in allowing these people in. Maybe not you or me personally but as a nation that really can't be denied. So the way I see it all the self righteous anger is misplaced. We created the problem and we can solve the problem in a way that is just and equitable to all. |
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Post by cameron on May 20, 2006 13:35:09 GMT -8
The line jumping? How could they possibly be jumping a line they were never going to be allowed to get on in the first place? I still don't get this... The ones here legally did whatever it took to do so legally. It obviously takes too damn long and we mean to fix that, but we still have to limit the numbers, so it's still going to take time (long enough to piss people off). Now, others just show up and they're IN. Badda-Bing Baby! How do you not see that as jumping in line ahead of all the people who have invested YEARS trying to do things legally? How can you jump a line you were never allowed to get on? How many illiterate peasants do you suppose are allowed to get on that line. Zero that's how many. They never had a legal means of entry. The ones on line are not penalized it still takes them they same amount of time. |
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Post by bounce on May 20, 2006 13:41:48 GMT -8
I understand your words, but you aren't making sense to me.
Some people are here legally. Like with you, it took years.
Some people are in line NOW. They have tons of time and effort invested going through the process.
Now, we have a shit-load of people who show up and magically get citizenship.
What difference does it make that they were never in line to begin with? They're jumping in front of tons of people who ARE!
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Post by cameron on May 20, 2006 13:47:19 GMT -8
I understand your words, but you aren't making sense to me. Some people are here legally. Like with you, it took years. Some people are in line NOW. They have tons of time and effort invested going through the process. Now, we have a shit-load of people who show up and magically get citizenship. What difference does it make that they were never in line to begin with? They're jumping in front of tons of people who ARE! How are they jumping in front? In front of who? Those one line are not going to have to wait longer. You're making an argument that it's not just for them to be allowed to stay becouse the jumped in front of the line. Well these people never had any chance of getting on line how is that just? Now I don't get what it is you don't get? Magic citizenship? Why must you do that? |
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Post by bounce on May 20, 2006 14:10:40 GMT -8
I thought you were asking for automatic citizenship (or at least an automatic legal right to be here) for those who want in and amnesty for those already here.
Have I had that fucked up this whole time?
Are you telling me you don't want that?
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Post by 101ABN on May 20, 2006 14:14:32 GMT -8
"You're making an argument that it's not just for them to be allowed to stay becouse the jumped in front of the line. Well these people never had any chance of getting on line how is that just?"
Then why the hell should they get to stay?
How is THAT just?
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