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Post by bounce on May 31, 2006 5:41:25 GMT -8
Cameron, I cannot believe you can type these words. You have refuted nothing. You just keep repeating the same old bullshit lines. Your math only goes down one line (they work cheap and they've been here too long to kick them out now). Well, that's complete BS! You refuse to see the situation in its entirety (they're costing us our country!). I (WE!) have responded with hundreds of posts doing NOTHING BUT addressing your point. It's short sighted as hell. It is you that have not addressed the closed hospitals, clogged schools, clogged prisons, clogged highways (many driving without insurance and running away after causing deadly accidents), the drain on our social services, their destruction of this country's ecology as they break the law entering this country illegally. etc... You don't answer these points because you can't. There is no defense and we all know it. You're wrong here too. What makes you think this??? The politicians are either going to do what they're told or they'll be gone. They might need some help understanding this. We're eager to assist them. You wrap yourself in "Conservatism" like Falcon wraps himself in "Patriotism." It's total bullshit and everyone can see it a mile away. Then try addressing at least one of my arguments Bounce. How do you propose to enforce employment laws with out local support? Give them legal standing and all the sudden most of your complaints dry up and blow away. Cameron, this is one of you most mindless statements. Do away with the law and criminals aren't criminals anymore. Hey cool! What a great way to cut down on crime! Jesus man, you've got to be kidding! We'll see about this. I WILL NOT VOTE FOR A RINO. What the fuck good does it do to vote for a liberal with an "R" after their name? What the fuck political power does that give me? You say you're a 24/7 subscriber. I consider Rush Limbaugh qualified to speak for the conservative movement. YOU DO THE MATH! Although, if you math here is anything like it is with illegals, there is no doubt why you keep coming up with the wrong answers. Conservatism is NOT simply voting for liberals who registered Republican. The way I see it, conservatism gains NOTHING by electing them. There is damn near no conservatism left in DC. We may need to rebuild this mother fucker from the ground up. If that's what it takes, so be it, but continuing to reward RINOs with reelection isn't going to turn things around. Right now, Bush is fucking himself (and this country) beyond his comprehension. I used to stick up for him when the Left would talk about what an idiot he is. I have stopped doing that. At this point, I'd as soon have fucking FDR as my President! |
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Post by 101ABN on May 31, 2006 5:48:37 GMT -8
FDR would go balls out to win the war and wouldn't tolerate 12 million unauthorized foreign nationals inside our borders.
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Post by bounce on May 31, 2006 5:58:43 GMT -8
FDR would go balls out to win the war and wouldn't tolerate 12 million unauthorized foreign nationals inside our borders. EXACTLY!!!! |
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Post by cameron on May 31, 2006 11:25:11 GMT -8
"How do you propose to enforce employment laws with out local support? Withhold all Federal funding from any municipality or county who will not assist federal agencies in enforcing the law. And you really believe that is going to happen? Like I said a fantasy world is where you reside. The economy here on Long Island is at this point is dependent on their labor, and the locals officials are not going to willingly enforce the laws and will probably help make them unenforcible. Bullshit. 5% of the workforce won't break your economy. Besides if the jobs are there, others will come to fill them when the illegals are gone. Or is it only illegals willing to work for a substandard wage that follow the labor market? This can only be called willful ignorance. About 7.2 million unauthorized migrants were employed in March 2005, accounting for about 4.9% of the civilian labor force over all. They made up a large share of all workers in a few more detailed occupational categories, including 24% of all workers employed in farming occupations, 17% in cleaning, 14% in construction and 12% in food preparation. Which means in some localities they are a larger part of the workforce then you presume. In those localities economic disruption would be inevitable. These localities have no incentive to follow your proscriptions. Unless of course you are willing to use federal funding to coerce them, and you are, it just isn't going to happen. I know of no time when conservatives have advocated the federal government should be allowed to coerce local municipalities. You and the rest of the enforcement only crowd are living in a fantasy world. Speak for yourself. I am, the problem with your logic is most people in this country are not crying for retribution against people who have worked to make a living and raise a family. You folks who started with “deport the criminals”, and who moved on to “make the criminals felons”, and who have since moved on to “starve them out by making it impossible to get a job”, have rightfully been labled extremists. The anti-reasonable-solutions crowd, motivated by emotion, and some strange combination of a need for retribution and fear of a future you cannot control. It is past time you angry little people grew up and started facing the real world as it is, and not as you want it to be. Heed your own advice, you're on the wrong side of this one. I may be wrong, I've been wrong in the past, but not this time. You are a minority of a minority within the conservative movement, the vast majority of everybody else is not with you. You can not force your will on the rest of the public. The fact that you think you can, is a testiment to your militant mentality, and complete failure to recognize the politiacl lay of the land. Like I've said from the start, your policies have no chance of ever being implimented. Now why don't you move on to some real solutions that have some chance of being implimented in the real world. There are illegals on Long Island who have started families have bought homes and are good neighbors to have. Buying homes? Then they're not only driving wages down but housing costs up. A double loser for the American worker. More nonesense based on economic ignorance. The blighted neigborhood here in my small town has been revitalized by them, and that's a good thing. As a conservative I would expect you to know, minimum wage laws are an illusion used by demogogues, much the same way you are using it now. In fact I know a family with a son serving in the Marines. Let's play a game, Cameron. You list every illegal family with member in the Marines and I'll list every illegal family with a member in prison for rape, robbery, murder, or drug dealing. Whose page do you think will fill up first? You know damn well which one. If your really are interested in keeping the criminal elements out why don't you support policies that would make it easeir to keep them out, and to find them once they are here? Instead you chose to perpatrate a fiction, that they are mostly all criminally intent. |
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Post by 101ABN on May 31, 2006 15:42:12 GMT -8
"And you really believe that is going to happen? Like I said a fantasy world is where you reside."
You asked me how to do it. I told you. It's infinitely doable. Whether or not it happens remains to be seen.
"This can only be called willful ignorance....Yadda,yadda,yadda"
You didn't answer my question.
Let's try again. 5% of the workforce won't break your economy. Besides if the jobs are there, others will come to fill them when the illegals are gone. Or is it only illegals willing to work for a substandard wage that follow the labor market?
"You folks who started with “deport the criminals”, and who moved on to “make the criminals felons”, and who have since moved on to “starve them out by making it impossible to get a job”, have rightfully been labled extremists."
Nope. Wrong. Go sit in the corner and put on the pointy hat. AN extremist is someone who wants to give amnesty to twelve million lawbreakers, who thinks it's OK to abandon the rule of law while suppressing wages for American workers, while making the employers who illegally employed them immune to prosecution AND give the illegals Social Security and a plethora of other entitlements.
THAT's fucking extremist!
"I may be wrong" Yes, you are without a doubt.
"You are a minority of a minority within the conservative movement, the vast majority of everybody else is not with you."
It doesn't matter. I'm right.
"The blighted neigborhood here in my small town has been revitalized by them, and that's a good thing. As a conservative I would expect you to know, minimum wage laws are an illusion used by demogogues, much the same way you are using it now."
Who said anything about minimum wage laws? The fact that they undercut the wages of American workers isn't even contestable. And Mr. Free Market economist, if supply and demand drives the market, then illegal aliens (more buyers) buying houses NECESSARILY drive up the prices.
And finally, you ducked another question that must be uncomfortable to you.
"In fact I know a family with a son serving in the Marines."
Let's play a game, Cameron. You list every illegal family with member in the Marines and I'll list every illegal family with a member in prison for rape, robbery, murder, or drug dealing.
Whose page do you think will fill up first?
I'll await your answer.
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Post by cameron on May 31, 2006 17:59:34 GMT -8
"And you really believe that is going to happen? Like I said a fantasy world is where you reside." You asked me how to do it. I told you. It's infinitely doable. Whether or not it happens remains to be seen. No actually it has no chance what so ever of being implemented and again this demonstrates just how far out of touch with reality you have become. This can only be called willful ignorance....Yadda,yadda,yadda" You didn't answer my question. Let's try again. 5% of the workforce won't break your economy. Besides if the jobs are there, others will come to fill them when the illegals are gone. Or is it only illegals willing to work for a substandard wage that follow the labor market?I did answer your question, that there would be economic dislocation is not in dispute with any economist you care to site. That economics is just as much a local issue as it is a national one, is an issue you seem to want to avoid. That there are local economies that would be hit, and hit hard is not in dispute. It's just another part of this issue you would rather not honestly address. You would rather just use words you think underline your position like invasion and substandard. So who says their wages are substandard? And do you really think using inflammatory rhetoric makes an argument stronger? You folks who started with “deport the criminals”, and who moved on to “make the criminals felons”, and who have since moved on to “starve them out by making it impossible to get a job”, have rightfully been labled extremists. Nope. Wrong. Go sit in the corner and put on the pointy hat. AN extremist is someone who wants to give amnesty to twelve million lawbreakers, who thinks it's OK to abandon the rule of law while suppressing wages for American workers, while making the employers who illegally employed them immune to prosecution AND give the illegals Social Security and a plethora of other entitlements. No an extremist is someone who advocates extreme measures. They're law breakers, they're law breakers, grow the fuck up. No one is abandoning the rule of law, this is nothing but angry, stupid, and moronic rhetoric. When have I advocated giving them a plethora of entitlements? Does your gut tell you you're losing the argument so you need to create straw-men arguments? You will have a hard time convincing the rest of society that someone who hires someone willing to work has abandoned the rule of law and needs to be severely punished. Now we see the repression inherent in your system. I for one am sure glad your plans have no chance of being implemented. THAT's fucking extremist! You sure are! I may be wrong Yes, you are without a doubt. You are a minority of a minority within the conservative movement, the vast majority of everybody else is not with you. It doesn't matter. I'm right. I'm right, I'm right, I'm right, screamed the spoiled inner child while stomping his feet, threating to punish all who do not acquiesce to his demands. Watch out Mr landscaper you may need someone for the day to help you install that back patio, but if you hire that guy from over by the seven eleven to help you out. This spoiled angry little man, if he has his way, will have you arrested, manacled, and shipped of to 10 years hard labor. For the crime of hiring someone you aren't responsible for letting in the country, but who was willing to work hard for a days wage. Nope, I'm not going to live in the world you have outlined. I will fight to prevent you from achieving your fantasy, of what I think can be fairly characterized as a fascist state, and yes that is what it would be. The blighted neighborhood here in my small town has been revitalized by them, and that's a good thing. As a conservative I would expect you to know, minimum wage laws are an illusion used by demagogues, much the same way you are using it now. Who said anything about minimum wage laws? The fact that they undercut the wages of American workers isn't even contestable. Um actually that statement is contested, immigration in recent decades of low-skilled workers may have lowered the wages of domestic low-skilled workers, but the effect is likely to be small, with estimates of wage reductions for high-school dropouts ranging from eight percent to as little as zero percent. And Mr. Free Market economist, if supply and demand drives the market, then illegal aliens (more buyers) buying houses NECESSARILY drive up the prices. Ok Mr. I don't have a clue when it come to economics, explain to me how driving up property values in a blighted area is bad for a community. This I got to hear!!! but then if you remain true to form you wont even address the issue. You will instead resort to, oh I don't know, questioning my loyalty. And finally, you ducked another question that must be uncomfortable to you. Ducked? I don't think so, I'm still waiting for you to punch your way out of that wet paper bag you have pulled over your head. In fact I know a family with a son serving in the Marines. Let's play a game, Cameron. You list every illegal family with member in the Marines and I'll list every illegal family with a member in prison for rape, robbery, murder, or drug dealing. Whose page do you think will fill up first?I'll await your answer. I'm still waiting for your answer, if you're really interested in keeping out criminal elements why not support policies that would make it easier to keep them out, and to catch them once they are here? I'll await your answer, so far the sound has been deafening. |
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Post by 101ABN on May 31, 2006 20:13:43 GMT -8
"No one is abandoning the rule of law"
You are.
"No actually it has no chance what so ever of being implemented and again this demonstrates just how far out of touch with reality you have become.'
Stupid answer. Leave the personal opinion out of it and try again. You asked me how to do it. I told you.
You're still ducking this one. so let me put it to you again in a different way because until you answer it, we can't proceed. Your premise throughout this whole argument has been that one cannot prevent the flow of labor to the market. My contention is that if that is in fact the case and the illegal pipeline were closed, other labor would rush in to fill the need.
OR
"Is it only illegals willing to work for a substandard wage that follow the labor market?"
"When have I advocated giving them a plethora of entitlements?"
You don't have to MORON, they will be automatically eligible for it and you fucking well know it. Go run your bullshit about strawman arguments somewhere else. You've had your ass handed to you here and you're too stupid or too stubborn to know it.
"Ok Mr. I don't have a clue when it come to economics, explain to me how driving up property values in a blighted area is bad for a community."
LEts see...Rising prices...Falling wages, I guess somebody's got to love that. Sure won't be the homegrown po' folks though, will it.
"You will instead resort to, oh I don't know, questioning my loyalty.
I'd say your loyalty is to the almighty dollar. Keep the prices high, the wages low, and the po' folks po'.
"And finally, you ducked another question that must be uncomfortable to you. "
Yep, and you ducked it again.
Or maybe you just forgot.
In fact I know a family with a son serving in the Marines.
Let's play a game, Cameron. You list every illegal family with a member in the Marines and I'll list every illegal family with a member in prison for rape, robbery, murder, or drug dealing.
Whose page do you think will fill up first?
I'll await your answer.
You're out of your league here, Sonny.
Run along home now.
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Post by cameron on Jun 2, 2006 2:35:34 GMT -8
No one is abandoning the rule of law You are. I have abandoned the rule of law? Why because I have dared to question the law, to perhaps suggest the law is not a good law? You seem so caught up in enforcing the law, that you are not able or willing to stop and ask if the law you are demanding strict enforcement of is a good law. No that's not how we do things here in America. To simply demand that the law be enforced without even being allowed to consider the merits of the law is tyranny. No actually it has no chance what so ever of being implemented and again this demonstrates just how far out of touch with reality you have become.' Stupid answer. Leave the personal opinion out of it and try again. You asked me how to do it. I told you. This is mindlessness, first you demand we enforce a law, that we may not even examine to see if it is a good law. Not even just for the purpose of a probative debate. Then you propose we enforce punitive laws on municipalities and pretend that this is something that can been done with impunity. That there would not be any sort of opposition or backlash from the public, like it was happening in a vacuum Then when I dispute the idea that this is even a law that could be enforced effectively or a law that could pass you say that's nothing but my opinion, that you need not seriously address. Well help me out here what is the purpose of this board any who? I must simply accept that what you say will be, will in fact be. That once you have made your pronouncement I may not question if this would even be viable or efficacious? So what planet are you from, Uranus? You're still ducking this one. so let me put it to you again in a different way because until you answer it, we can't proceed. Your premise throughout this whole argument has been that one cannot prevent the flow of labor to the market. My contention is that if that is in fact the case and the illegal pipeline were closed, other labor would rush in to fill the need. OR Is it only illegals willing to work for a substandard wage that follow the labor market? Our economy is currently creating 2 million jobs a year, where would the other labor you claim would rush to fill this need come from? When have I advocated giving them a plethora of entitlements? You don't have to MORON, they will be automatically eligible for it and you fucking well know it. Go run your bullshit about strawman arguments somewhere else. You've had your ass handed to you here and you're too stupid or too stubborn to know it. I should play the same way you do, you called me a moron therefore you automatically loose the argument hahahaha. We are currently writing immigration law, why can't we write it so that they are not automatically eligible for it? Had my ass handed to me? Tsk tsk trust me I will let you know when you have actually made a valid point, or handed me my ass, so far you're not doing so well, sorry. Ok Mr. I don't have a clue when it come to economics, explain to me how driving up property values in a blighted area is bad for a community. LEts see...Rising prices...Falling wages, I guess somebody's got to love that. Sure won't be the homegrown po' folks though, will it. Lots of built in assumptions in that statement, wow. Have you always viewed economics as a zero sum game? You do know that wages aren't falling right now or is it your contention that they will fall. I think I would like you to clear that up first before I tackle your simplistic understanding. You will instead resort to, oh I don't know, questioning my loyalty. I'd say your loyalty is to the almighty dollar. Keep the prices high, the wages low, and the po' folks po'. Was this meant as a serious statement on your part or is it simply rhetorical? And finally, you ducked another question that must be uncomfortable to you. Yep, and you ducked it again. Or maybe you just forgot. In fact I know a family with a son serving in the Marines. Let's play a game, Cameron. You list every illegal family with a member in the Marines and I'll list every illegal family with a member in prison for rape, robbery, murder, or drug dealing. Whose page do you think will fill up first? I'll await your answer. You're out of your league here, Sonny. Run along home now. Well we already did this in another thread but I don't mind repeating my answer here. The truth is that neither one of us can say with certainty who would win that contest but for the sake of argument I will concede to you that you win. What does that prove? Does it prove that the majority of them are not law abiding outside of their original sin of crossing the border with out permission? Does it prove they are not like most every other group of human beings around the planet who really don't want much more than to be able to provide for themselves and their families? You are obviously a very angry about this, that is not a healthy emotion and not one you should allow to guide your political views. In fact you have allowed and encouraged the kind of rhetoric that not only objectifies them put openly vilifies them as a group. Slice and dice that any way you want that's bigotry and all I can say is for shame. You know it's the anger that makes moonbats what they are, and you very much resemble one. |
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Post by 101ABN on Jun 2, 2006 7:02:59 GMT -8
You don't listen, do you asshole?  Your thinly veiled threat and accusatory tone are duly noted. You were warned |
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Post by spiritualmachine1 on Jun 2, 2006 14:44:06 GMT -8
You don't listen, do you asshole? Your thinly veiled threat and accusatory tone are duly noted. You were warned Thinly veiled threat? Oh puleaze what load of horse shit. There is no threat contained in my reply to you. As for the accusatory tone your darn tooting there is, especially now. You have committed an act of intellectual fraud and made a false accusation against me. Be honest you don't like having someone challenge you. I say you have condoned rather disgusting practice of vilifying a whole group of people and are in fact diminishing their humanity so as to justify treating them any damn way you see fit. You disgust me and you don't need worry I want be back. But let it be known you are not the true believer of freedom you claim to be. In fact I make this charge against you. YOU ARE A NARROW MINDED BIGOT! |
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Post by bounce on Jun 2, 2006 14:51:38 GMT -8
Good riddance!
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Post by 101ABN on Jun 2, 2006 15:21:49 GMT -8
"...there's no dumbass vaccine." -Jimmy Buffet
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Post by bounce on Jun 2, 2006 18:02:18 GMT -8
"...there's no dumbass vaccine." -Jimmy Buffet Ain't THAT the truth! |
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