Ya'll are probably going to hate me...

[FightingFalcon]

"My agenda is simple: They either follow the law or get out. I'm tired of this invasion of our country. And I remember you used to have some pretty strong views in opposition to illegal aliens."

I have strong views in terms of those who break the law and threaten the Republic. I'm also a human being with a human heart. I can't just watch us fill bus loads of my fellow human beings and throw them across the border. No one in the civilized world would ever practice that. Can you just IMAGINE the condemnation that we would recieve? I can picture it now - busloads of people beind shoved, at gun point, back across the Mexican border. I would be completely disgusted with my country if that ever happened.

Am I pissed that these people don't love America as much as I do? Of course. But I don't care if America is white, brown, black, yellow or whatever. I only care about the Constitution and the Republic. If America becomes completely brown, who gives a shit. I don't. So long as the Constitution reigns supreme and my rights are respected.

That's the great thing about this country. No one gives a shit about what the majority thinks if it goes against the Constitution. Until Latinos start acting in an un-Constitutional manner, do whatever the fuck you want. I'll continue to drape myself in my Irish and Italian flags....

[Far Rider]

I only care about the Constitution and the Republic.

Then maybe you should care about whether people respect respect the Constitution and the laws of the Republic.

I can't just watch us fill bus loads of my fellow human beings and throw them across the border. No one in the civilized world would ever practice that.

Mexico will just throw you in the slammer and let you rot.

Until Latinos start acting in an un-Constitutional manner, do whatever the fuck you want.

They already have. They broke the law you claim to care about, but you are justifying it with some bullshit apples and oranges argument. The fact that they're latinos is beside the point.

I'll continue to drape myself in my Irish and Italian flags....

Why not a Mexican flag?

[MrDoublel]

I look at it this way (like my opinion counts :-) )
1) Build the fence to CURB the flow of illegals (you can never truly stop it but we can slow it down) and regain control of our borders.

2) Give the illegals 90 days to register for their workers permits (I agree that deporting them would be hard as hell to accomplish.) Whatever industry that uses cheap labor (like agriculture) can advertise at the crossing points for workers, the workers can then be sponsored by who ever wants them and they can be registered and get their worker ID and go to work, get paid and pay taxes.

3) If some of them wish to become Americans work out a program to make that happen. The rest, they're guests, no voing rights, they get arrested give them the boot never to return, no citizenship for their kids,...unless their kids want it down the road and they go through the same process that every other foriegner goes through to gain citizenship.

James, many of these people do not want to become citizens and could care less about our country. If they did they would learn english and work towards becoming citizens. Most of them are here for money and only for money. If there were good paying jobs in Mexico they'd stay there.

[Far Rider]

sfcdoublel said:

1) Build the fence to CURB the flow of illegals (you can never truly stop it but we can slow it down) and regain control of our borders.

It worked for the Israelis.

[101ABN]

Some of you aren't getting something.

You won't have to physically deport many.

Once you shut off the entitlements and bar them from the workplace, they'll self-deport.

I'll respond in detail after work.

[bounce]

admin said:

Some of you aren't getting something.

You won't have to physically deport many.

Once you shut off the entitlements and bar them from the workplace, they'll self-deport.

I'll respond in detail after work.

EXACTLY RIGHT!

We didn't import them did we?

Once the sugar is cut off (and I mean REALLY CUT OFF), they'll leave on their own.

REALLY CUT OFF means jail-time for employers who knowingly hire illegals. It means "perp-walks."

Now, we need to develop a system by which employers can QUICKLY and EASILY make that determination. When the gubmnt hands out driver's licenses and social security cards, how is the employer supposed to tell?

1) Build a double wall and stop the problem from getting any worse.

2) Develop a system (maybe using biometrics - something very difficult to duplicate) for employers to quickly and easily determine legals vs. illegals.

3) Jail some of the more notorious employers of illegals and advertise their arrests widely.

4) Streamline the "LEGAL" immigration process. Seven or eight years is too long to have to wait.

[FightingFalcon]

"Then maybe you should care about whether people respect respect the Constitution and the laws of the Republic."

I'm simply trying to find a solution that gives the most benefit to the Republic while also acting in a humane manner. A guest-worker program I feel meets both requirements.

"Mexico will just throw you in the slammer and let you rot."

I wouldn't exactly call Mexico civilized.

"Why not a Mexican flag?"

I was simply proving a point. Waving a flag of another country doesn't mean that you hate America. As I write this, my Irish flag hangs proudly in my room. And I dare any one of you to claim that I hate the Republic.

"It worked for the Israelis."

As I said to 101, wait until the fence is finished. The Economist's main story this past week was about the Israeli wall and how they plan to include all of Jerusalem on their side of the wall. It will be very interesting to see what happens when they finish it. My guess is that Palestinians won't just sit by and watch one of their holiest sites be denied to them.

"1) Build the fence to CURB the flow of illegals (you can never truly stop it but we can slow it down) and regain control of our borders."

A fence is there already - it's just really ineffective.

"2) Give the illegals 90 days to register for their workers permits (I agree that deporting them would be hard as hell to accomplish.) Whatever industry that uses cheap labor (like agriculture) can advertise at the crossing points for workers, the workers can then be sponsored by who ever wants them and they can be registered and get their worker ID and go to work, get paid and pay taxes."

Fine with me.

"3) If some of them wish to become Americans work out a program to make that happen. The rest, they're guests, no voing rights, they get arrested give them the boot never to return, no citizenship for their kids,...unless their kids want it down the road and they go through the same process that every other foriegner goes through to gain citizenship."

My only reservation is about the citizenship thing. Haven't made up my mind about that yet.

"Once you shut off the entitlements and bar them from the workplace, they'll self-deport."

That is your opinion, but I just don't see it that way.

"REALLY CUT OFF means jail-time for employers who knowingly hire illegals. It means "perp-walks."

I will never agree with any sort of punishment for companies who are simply using the exisiting system to their advantage. As I've said before, the government has no right to tell a company who they can and cannot employ. Looking up the employment records and telling companies that they need to fire Mr/Mrs. X, smacks of Fascism.

Not to mention the fact that a plan like that would force all companies to discriminate against Latinos, for the fear of them being illegal.

"4) Streamline the "LEGAL" immigration process. Seven or eight years is too long to have to wait."

There needs to be something in between visas and citizenship. A guest worker program would fill that void.

[Far Rider]

I'm simply trying to find a solution that gives the most benefit to the Republic while also acting in a humane manner.

Well, we have these minor details called "laws" in this country you have sworn to defend.

I wouldn't exactly call Mexico civilized.

Well, it's high time they got civilized, especially if they expect us to take their overflow off their hands.

My guess is that Palestinians won't just sit by and watch one of their holiest sites be denied to them.

And my guess is that if the Palestinians start blowing up innocent civilians again the Israelis will start shoving missiles up their asses again.

I was simply proving a point.

Oh, I got the point, all right.

As I write this, my Irish flag hangs proudly in my room.

Good for you. My Stars and Srtipes hangs proudly out front. I live in America, and served in the U.S. Navy, and I'm proud of THAT.

[FightingFalcon]

"Well, we have these minor details called "laws" in this country you have sworn to defend."

It was once the "law" that a man could own another man. Laws sometimes need to be reformed, otherwise we'd still be burning heretics at the stake.

"And my guess is that if the Palestinians start blowing up innocent civilians again the Israelis will start shoving missiles up their asses again."

And how well has that worked? Has that done anything to bring peace to the region?

"Good for you. My Stars and Srtipes hangs proudly out front. I live in America, and served in the U.S. Navy, and I'm proud of THAT."

And in a year I'll be an O-1 in the USAF. I don't need to flaunt my patriotism to prove any sort of point. The amount of American flags in my room does not describe my level of patriotism.

[pops]

1.) Secure the border by either construction of a fence along know routes, increase the size of the Border Patrol, INS and/or deploy US forces to guard the border. After all what is the primary responsibility of the armed forces but to protect our borders.

2.) Require all employers to verify a potential employee's citizenship or right to be here working.

3.) Impose massive fine or imprisonment for employers who knowingly hire illegals or who fail to verify.

4.) Change the law that give citizenship status to children born in the US to read "child born must be from LEGAL residents and parents must claim citizenship for the child at the time of birth" A notation on birth certificate should show status. Every State should be required to change certificates to reflect this.

5.) Illegals found will be turned over to INS officials. Those found to have children born in the US will be prosecuted, fined and required to register as a "guest worker". Registration will be done on a 1-2 year cycle. All children born after illegal status has been determined will not be US citizens

6.) Federal Government establish a data base for all immigrants/personnel issued a Visa, Guest Worker or other authorization to be here and that data base be available to all law enforcement agencies, Court Houses, Licences Branches and Hospitals.

7.) Any and all property belonging to Illegals will be confiscated and sold at auction with proceeds going to local law enforcement.

[Sailor]

fightingfalcon said:

"I agree with 101, at the first contact with police immigration status should be checked and if found to be here illegally, either by illegal entry as from Mexico or by expired visa, shipped home pronto."

Shipped home...as if it's so easy.

It may not be "so easy," but it is worth doing. Nothing really worthwhile is ever all that easy to do.

[Far Rider]

It was once the "law" that a man could own another man.

And now they have a "court decision" that says you can kill your unborn children. I don't like that, either, but I am bound to obey the law, or I become no better than the people who do kill their unborn children.

But one has nothing to do with the other. It's not your job to judge the law; it's your job to defend it. Do you know what your duty is?

Has that done anything to bring peace to the region?

"Bringing peace" is the job of politicians. Defending the country and the people in it is the job of the military.

And in a year I'll be an O-1 in the USAF.

You're not there yet.

I don't need to flaunt my patriotism to prove any sort of point.

You need to flaunt your Irish and Italian flags for some reason, though. My point was that being what I am is enough, because what I am is significant. I live and work in the Carolinas, where a huge part of the revolution was fought. I have walked the decks of Old Ironsides wearing the uniform of the very Navy it still serves.

I have stood in the flame trench of the launchpad where John Glenn took the first American orbital space flight, and have actually sat in a Mercury capsule myself.

America is an awesome place, with awesome people who make awesome heroes and awesome leaders. Being an American is awesome - it's enough for me. I don't need a hyphenated allegiance. And I don't believe anybody who really appreciates being an American does, either.

If these people claim to want to be Americans, let them start by obeying the laws we have now. If they want different laws, then the need to become citizens so they can get the laws changed, not disregard them.

[tits]

because what I am is significant.

Golly you old salt, you are closer to becoming a psychologist than I. The Cadet spoke from his human nature. I too grow weary of all the war movies where the only good German was a dead German. Some of those dead Krauts were my grandparents cousins. But I am an American of German heritage. I am not a German American, that was my grandparents.

I agree with the Cadet and others that illegals must follow the rules. I have yet to hear anyone speak of following the "rules of law" or that "we are nation of laws". Those on the left only cite the law when it suits them.

But Bob you spoke true.

Good on both of you!

[MARIO]

many of these people do not want to become citizens and could care less about our country. If they did they would learn english and work towards becoming citizens. Most of them are here for money and only for money.


Exactly, Larry.


Most of these people are coming here to take and making demands of us.

All of those people who come here legally and expend the effort in doing so place a higher value on being an American and assimilating than do those who simply cross the border and think they OWN this country, and that the American people owe them.

[MARIO]

fightingfalcon said:

"My agenda is simple: They either follow the law or get out. I'm tired of this invasion of our country. And I remember you used to have some pretty strong views in opposition to illegal aliens."

I have strong views in terms of those who break the law and threaten the Republic. I'm also a human being with a human heart. I can't just watch us fill bus loads of my fellow human beings and throw them across the border. No one in the civilized world would ever practice that. Can you just IMAGINE the condemnation that we would recieve? I can picture it now - busloads of people beind shoved, at gun point, back across the Mexican border. I would be completely disgusted with my country if that ever happened.

Am I pissed that these people don't love America as much as I do? Of course. But I don't care if America is white, brown, black, yellow or whatever. I only care about the Constitution and the Republic. If America becomes completely brown, who gives a shit. I don't. So long as the Constitution reigns supreme and my rights are respected.

That's the great thing about this country. No one gives a shit about what the majority thinks if it goes against the Constitution. Until Latinos start acting in an un-Constitutional manner, do whatever the fuck you want. I'll continue to drape myself in my Irish and Italian flags....

James, I honestly have no idea what you're tlaking about in that second paragraph.

You say you're angry that these people don't love America as much as you and I do, but then go off on a rant about brown people, yellow, etc.

What does that have to do with anything??

And take a look at those quotes by Hispanic leaders I posted before. Many of them say they are going to "out-breed" us gringos.

No country which allows an illegal invasion of this magnitude can survive too long, especially when the people invading have no interest in becoming Americans.

Hospitals are closing.

Prisons are filling up.

Taxpayers are losing billions every year to this invasion.

Americans are being killed.

It needs to stop!

BTW: It looks like the organizers of these marches today told the illegals to MAKE sure they bring an American Flag.

Of course these people are going to say in polls they are "proud to be Americans," as if they even knew what being an American entailed.

They'll say this stuff in polls because it's an aspect of their public relations campaign, just as all of that phony holding of the American flag. I'd like to see where those flags end up when the cameras are off and they are in the privacy of their own homes.